Scottish Independence

[Jambo99]

Some Yes campaigners , and some No campaigners seem unhinged and maniac.

[Casual Bystander]

Some Yes campaigners , and some No campaigners seem unhinged and maniac.

Seems like someone is avoiding the question.

You simply can't defend your position, can you?

[Jambo99]

It seems like #indyref will be a yes, at this moment. I dread a yes on the actual day. Scots are incapable of playing nice.

We will not get to reject each other, we will have to work with one another.

[Casual Bystander]

It seems like #indyref will be a yes, at this moment. I dread a yes on the actual day. Scots are incapable of playing nice.

We will not get to reject each other, we will have to work with one another.

Still refuses to answer.

[Casual Bystander]

You have to love the BBC. We all know they have shown bias towards the union point of view, yet now they have been forced to run a story that has a positive spin for the Yes camp they still need to fight against it. Have a look at their "most read" stories:

Two stories that were not even in the list until the latest indy positive article was published have suddenly become more viewed.

The two stories are from 10th of March, and the 13th of February. Both of them considerably pro-union. Just how small minded are the BBC?

[Jambo99]

Until Scots can treat each other more kindly and respectfully, a yes vote seems like a disaster. Cos we can be harsh.

[Casual Bystander]

Superb, the Osborne story has now completely disappeared from the list. Are we to believe that a story became the most popular within an hour then suddenly just drops off?

You see this is the one thing I really hate about the independence referendum in that it makes you notice this sort of shit. I hate the way the BBC has forced hundreds of thousands of people into mistrusting them. It should be impartial, after all there is no political bias when it comes to paying the licence fee.

[Jambo99]

I've trawled through this shit, it was hard work, but J99 (IMO):

1) Is unable to vote (age/location)

2) Is a deliberately antagonistic spacker

3) Is hired py B&B to get the post-count up.

Caveat: could be all 3

who is B+B?

[Casual Bystander]

I've trawled through this shit, it was hard work, but J99 (IMO):

1) Is unable to vote (age/location)

2) Is a deliberately antagonistic spacker

3) Is hired py B&B to get the post-count up.

Caveat: could be all 3

Certainly #2. In terms of #1 I wouldn't be surprised. As for #3.. meh.

[Jambo99]

*post edited* I'm tired, long night. The three options still stand.

thanks. not any of those things. (spacker? dearie me, is this how scots treat each other?)

[Casual Bystander]

is this how scots treat each other?

> implies he is not in Scotland

> implies he does not have a vote

> implies his many "I am voting no" posts are trolling bullshit

[DeeTillEhDeh]

You continually concentrate on the characters rather than the points being made.

Who would you like to tell you about independence? Noel Edmonds? Chris Evans? Michael McIntyre?

Have a bit of thought for yourself instead of hating who's delivering the message.

Do you have even thje slightest feeling that Scotland can govern itsself better than Westminster has over the past 307 years? If so, you HAVE to vote Yes.

It's not the characters it's the ideology.

It's trotskyism dressed up as nationalism.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

I am trying to make a point. The point is, as an independent country the choice of what we do is ours. If we choose to apply for the EU, it's our choice. If we choose to join NATO, it's our choice.

I have asked the troll if he can list what things we will not have control over, after a vote for independence (as was the original question) yet he refuses to reply.

You can choose to join but it would not be iScotland's decision to allow admission.

But that's not the real decision-making issue.

It also would not be iScotland's decision over the terms of joining - something both sides in this debate seem to ignore. BT too busy playing the "you won't get to join the EU" card. The real issue is not "can we join the EU" but what will the terms be for that membership.

[Confidemus]

It's not the characters it's the ideology.

It's trotskyism dressed up as nationalism.

What the hell is Trotsky about wanting to have the Government we vote for? At it's heart, that's what everyone in the Yes campaighn wants. But by all means, keep playing the man not the ball.

And as for this Jambo99 character, oh dear. The whole point is we get to control everything in Holyrood. We will be no less independent than every other, er, independent country in the world.

Taxes are raised here and spent here. Seems pretty legit to me. Anything else is just semantics.

[WhiteRoseKillie]

It's not the characters it's the ideology.

It's trotskyism dressed up as nationalism.

Assuming you mean Socialism, as I don't reckon on past performance you can differentiate between the various Leftist ideologies, what is the problem with that?

A country where inequality is less of an issue? Would you not give up the miniscule chance of owning a multi-million property portfolio for the knowledge that no-one was going hungry or left untreated when ill?

Nothing fucks me off more than arseholes who batter on about Socialism being discredited and unworkable. Look at where Capitalism has brought us. Everything, including your conscience, has a price. It's fucking obscene, and yet the masses buy into it because they're too stupid to question their masters, and too frightened of losing the few crumbs they're allowed.

Keynes probably never said “Capitalism is the extraordinary belief that the nastiest of men for the nastiest of motives will somehow work for the benefit of all.”, but I really have to question people who look at the gutted, formerly thriving, towns around Scotland, compare them with the "recovery" of the SE of England, and think "Aye, this is probably as good as it gets".

Again, I don't have a vote, but anyone who votes against the chance for self-determination is frankly, imho, unworthy of being enfranchised. For the love of God, just ask yourself why the Tories are desperate to hang onto Scotland when Independence would wipe dozens of Opposition seats from the HoC at a stroke. There must be some reason if they're willing to give up the chance of ruling the rest in perpetuity, don't you think?

[Confidemus]

Assuming you mean Socialism, as I don't reckon on past performance you can differentiate between the various Leftist ideologies, what is the problem with that?

A country where inequality is less of an issue? Would you not give up the miniscule chance of owning a multi-million property portfolio for the knowledge that no-one was going hungry or left untreated when ill?

Nothing fucks me off more than arseholes who batter on about Socialism being discredited and unworkable. Look at where Capitalism has brought us. Everything, including your conscience, has a price. It's fucking obscene, and yet the masses buy into it because they're too stupid to question their masters, and too frightened of losing the few crumbs they're allowed.

Keynes probably never said “Capitalism is the extraordinary belief that the nastiest of men for the nastiest of motives will somehow work for the benefit of all.”, but I really have to question people who look at the gutted, formerly thriving, towns around Scotland, compare them with the "recovery" of the SE of England, and think "Aye, this is probably as good as it gets".

Again, I don't have a vote, but anyone who votes against the chance for self-determination is frankly, imho, unworthy of being enfranchised. For the love of God, just ask yourself why the Tories are desperate to hang onto Scotland when Independence would wipe dozens of Opposition seats from the HoC at a stroke. There must be some reason if they're willing to give up the chance of ruling the rest in perpetuity, don't you think?

Excellent post.

[MuckleMoo]

How many nuclear weapons bases have you dis-armed in a couple of weeks?

I haven't. You repeat it will be a doddle. I believe it is more complicated than a few screwdrivers here, a spanner there.

Never stated it would be a doddle, think that was you!

Anyhoo, here you go. Knock yourself out.

www.banthebomb.org/.../disarmingtriden...

As you can see, you don't have to dismantle the warheads, only remove the flight/navigation systems which are routinely upgraded anyway. Funnily enough, they probably will need a screwdriver to do this. How many days to take? 7. Alternatively you can simply remove the keys and triggers from the subs

[Baxter Parp]

It's not the characters it's the ideology.

It's trotskyism dressed up as nationalism.

It clearly fucking isn't.

[throbber]

Almost every No sayer i know says they will pack up and leave Scotland if its a yes

[DeeTillEhDeh]

Assuming you mean Socialism, as I don't reckon on past performance you can differentiate between the various Leftist ideologies, what is the problem with that?

A country where inequality is less of an issue? Would you not give up the miniscule chance of owning a multi-million property portfolio for the knowledge that no-one was going hungry or left untreated when ill?

Nothing fucks me off more than arseholes who batter on about Socialism being discredited and unworkable. Look at where Capitalism has brought us. Everything, including your conscience, has a price. It's fucking obscene, and yet the masses buy into it because they're too stupid to question their masters, and too frightened of losing the few crumbs they're allowed.

Keynes probably never said “Capitalism is the extraordinary belief that the nastiest of men for the nastiest of motives will somehow work for the benefit of all.”, but I really have to question people who look at the gutted, formerly thriving, towns around Scotland, compare them with the "recovery" of the SE of England, and think "Aye, this is probably as good as it gets".

Again, I don't have a vote, but anyone who votes against the chance for self-determination is frankly, imho, unworthy of being enfranchised. For the love of God, just ask yourself why the Tories are desperate to hang onto Scotland when Independence would wipe dozens of Opposition seats from the HoC at a stroke. There must be some reason if they're willing to give up the chance of ruling the rest in perpetuity, don't you think?

The problem is though is what is socislism. I would define myself as a democratic socialist. Cat Boyd et al by their very membership of groups like the ISG would define themselves as Trotskyite. That's why I thinks its a complete facade - they don't believe in independence deep down because fundamentally they don't believe Socialism in one country is acceptable.

Sheridan and others of his political persuasion were for a very long time in the days of Militant hardline opponents of independence. The wholesale conversion of the likes of Sheridan to independence has much more to do with their falling-out with UK Militant.