H_B Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 I do, but the idealist in me would like to think that - aside from any narrow dictionary definition - it encompassed a degree of discussion and listening to the views of others. It's interesting you've assigned that to just No voters. Listening to shite on Facebook and Wings over Scotland doesn't make you informed. Yes voters on here have talked some spectacular nonsense. And that's without venturing near the sewer of Facebook and Twitter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 Sad to see so much self-loathing and fear (of Tories/UKIP/Westminster) from the Yessers. Seems it wasn't just restricted to the No campaign after all For myself, I came very close to spoiling my paper because I didn't really want to support either camp. The Status Quo is not good enough but I was not fully convinced by what was on offer from Yes. In the end I decided that spoiling was unacceptable and voted Yes in an attempt to become an optimistic person but I suspect that many of the doubts that I had about Yes were ones that were shared by undecided voters all over the country who decided to turn to no. I think that Yes made a tactical blunder by pinning their flag to the mast of currency union. It may have made the most economic sense but in the context of the referendum---all of Westminster and the media against you---you can't leave a great big open goal for the opposition to say "No, that's not going to happen, you'd have to agree that with us and we say No". Trying to convince undecideds that Westminster was bluffing was just too hard, and it was easy pickings for the No camp. If Plan A had been Sterlingisation or our own currency then Better Together would have had to argue against it on the basis of economics, and that would have been a lot harder for them. Swinney and Salmond seriously threatening to go down the nuclear route of walking away from the debt will also have turned off a lot of people. Moving forward its going to be interesting to see what happens. Absolutely delighted to see such a huge turnout yesterday, I'm sure there are a lot of disappointed people this morning but what a year its been. Maybe you can point out the self-loathing bit, I've had a good look through and cannot see it. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Heliums Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 Scrambling back from the Vow and talk of Scotland being marginalised already. Yay. You can see how it will play out. In a desperate attempt for votes, Labour will say the Tories are reneging and ask Scots to vote for them at the election to keep 'The Vow'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banterous Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 You think prices won't rise after a No vote? Just how stupid are you? Can you look at the White Paper and give me evidence to the contrary? Possibly in certain areas but not as much as you think in others to your second question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Heliums Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 It's interesting you've assigned that to just No voters. Don't mean to assign it exclusively - so sorry if I implied that - but the statistic from the poll last night indicated that a far larger proportion of No voters had made up their mind a year or more ago compared to Yes voters. 62% of No voters had always known they'd vote that way And the other point was that despite all the claims of engagement, very few No voters had been influenced by this. I think that's important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 Can you look at the White Paper and give me evidence to the contrary? Possibly in certain areas but not as much as you think in others to your second question. To the contrary of what? Are you answering the wrong post or something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ando Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 Another sad statistic from the accurate YouGov poll last night: three-quarters of No voters had made up their mind to vote No a year OR MORE ago. That's shocking. They'd decided before the White Paper! That is pretty frightening, shows we never had a chance. To be fair I was a Yes before I read the WP and I guess a high percentage of that 45% were too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamdunk Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 Gutted. Hungover. I'm away to eat my cereal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 That is pretty frightening, shows we never had a chance. To be fair I was a Yes before I read the WP and I guess a high percentage of that 45% were too. These numbers look strange given 2 million people moved from No to Yes based on the anecdotal evidence on here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banterous Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 To the contrary of what? Are you answering the wrong post or something? No you told me that prices would rise in the event of a No vote and I said that they'd rise in the event of a Yes. I'm basing my assertion on claims made by economists and a leading financial organisation; not evidence however. So have you got evidence or claims by any organisation that prices will rise in the event of a No vote? I had to type it out for myself....bit slow sometimes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Psychosis Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 Maybe you can point out the self-loathing bit, I've had a good look through and cannot see it. Thanks. Take your pick from any of the variations on "nation of shitebags", "servile c*nts", "I hope the Tories shaft us because we deserve it" that you'll find all over the internet as of a few hours ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 Take your pick from any of the variations on "nation of shitebags", "servile c*nts", "I hope the Tories shaft us because we deserve it" that you'll find all over the internet as of a few hours ago. So calling other shitebags and servile c***s is self-loathing? In terms of 'we deserve it' I would have thought that applies to the collective we rather than those of us who are not responsible for the NO vote. However if this literal interpretation suits your narrative fair enough. There is certainly no cause in the YES camp for self loathing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banterous Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 Take your pick from any of the variations on "nation of shitebags", "servile c*nts", "I hope the Tories shaft us because we deserve it" that you'll find all over the internet as of a few hours ago. Wasting your time. If he doesn't agree he'll either post that "you're a troll"; won't engage or make it them and us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Psychosis Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 So calling other shitebags and servile c***s is self-loathing? In terms of 'we deserve it' I would have thought that applies to the collective we rather than those of us who are not responsible for the NO vote. However if this literal interpretation suits your narrative fair enough. There is certainly no cause in the YES camp for self loathing. It was the collective "we" I was referring to. Never mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoda Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 Bitterly disappointed and more than a tad gutted. Yeah I respect the democratic decision and will of the people but I do fundamentally disagree with the decision. Unfortunately the people of Scotland rejected the opportunity for positive long-term change. It's going to be difficult to not be apathetic towards UK politics again - that's not a knee jerk reaction, I've always had a degree of apathy towards Westminster politics. I'm pessimistic about the future but WM must deliver on their promise. There's problems with the current system and we need change. Extensive powers are required. I still think the best option for Scotland is independence. I see no reason as to why we shouldn't be running our own affairs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
printer Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 Don't call this a victory for democracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anonapersona Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 I hope this ill feeling over the vote doesn't last long. Salmond links westminster to foodbanks yes voters lap it up and accuse anyone being against independence as supporting poverty. Salmond seems to have had a go at divide and rule but not managed the latter part, then we now have folk like confi and Frankie Boyle regarding anyone who disagrees with them as the scum of the earth. When I first moved to the States I got involved with foodbank drives. I used to brag to my buddies about how those things were a rarity in the UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel Sanchez Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 If we want to ever have this chance again in our lifetimes, the inevitable shying away of The Vow cannot be forgotten. Westminster parties must be held accountable to the promises they made, and anyone who voted no or was wavering or whatever must be reminded of it at every possible occasion. For the vote itself... I don't even have anything to say, really. I'm not really active on here and enjoyed reading more than anything else (the optimism of yes was infectious) but I liked that there was the possibility that the majority of the Scottish people wanted to run everything. Regardless of any result or vote that to me is something which should be an ideal, and I do hope it can happen. I guess we'll need to take it on the chin and work towards having this opportunity again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forever_blue Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 No you told me that prices would rise in the event of a No vote and I said that they'd rise in the event of a Yes. I'm basing my assertion on claims made by economists and a leading financial organisation; not evidence however. So have you got evidence or claims by any organisation that prices will rise in the event of a No vote? I had to type it out for myself....bit slow sometimes Excuse me, but have you not noticed that prices go up all the fucking time? How could prices not go up after any vote? It's a bloody stupid thing to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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