Ned Nederlander Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 I'm not sure I've got the gist of this thread right - there's no link in the original post so who is suggesting that we 'celebrate' the war ? I'm all for 'commemorating' and 'remembering' each event chronologically as it happened 100 years on - I'd find that interesting and educational - is that not just what is being proposed ? I'm sure the same method of 'commemoration' will be adopted when we reach the centenary of the start of WW2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 I'm not sure I've got the gist of this thread right - there's no link in the original post so who is suggesting that we 'celebrate' the war ? I'm all for 'commemorating' and 'remembering' each event chronologically as it happened 100 years on - I'd find that interesting and educational - is that not just what is being proposed ? I'm sure the same method of 'commemoration' will be adopted when we reach the centenary of the start of WW2 I don't think I'm going to worry too much about that one, tbh... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Wilson Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 After some research I found this picture of my great groyvater on his way to work in 1915. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invergowrie arab Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Iolaire Half the male population of Lewis went to the Great War. Many of those survived to Armistice day returned on HMS Iolaire. On Hogmanay 1918 in sight of the lights of Stornoway Harbour and 30 yards from shore the HMS Iolair struck rocks and went down with the loss of 200 lives. The bodies were washed up along the beaches over the coming days and that is how 200 of the men of Lewis returned home. As well as the bodies many toys were also washed up as the soldiers brought home belated Christmas presents for their families. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ned Nederlander Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 After some research I found this picture of my great groyvater on his way to work in 1915. [pedantry]No tanks on the battlefield in 1915[/pedantry] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reynard Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 I think Cameron et al have misunderstood how people see WW!. It's seen as a waste of millions of lives for no reason by the public. My Gran's uncle didn't make it, thankfully my great grandad did. That's a 50% hit rate in one family of two brothers. That's an example of one consequence of this war. Like many others we're closer to the consequences of WW2 Korea and possibly NI,Iraq and Afghanistan. However, WW1 is SEEN as the biggest waste and to commerate the start in the fashion the govt is proposing (A football game FFS) is to seriously misjudge the public mood in Scotland on this matter. As far as most people go, we commerate WW1 every year we don't need to remember the start of the fucking war just its ending. I don't have a top 5 wars but the War on Drugs is my favourite continuing one What? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandarilla Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 [pedantry]No tanks on the battlefield in 1915[/pedantry] And the first ones certainly weren't German. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ned Nederlander Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 And the first ones certainly weren't German. Correct - although that's a captured British tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Wilson Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 [pedantry]No tanks on the battlefield in 1915[/pedantry] I said on his way. I didn't say when he got there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trainspotter Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 I'm not sure I've got the gist of this thread right - there's no link in the original post so who is suggesting that we 'celebrate' the war ? I'm all for 'commemorating' and 'remembering' each event chronologically as it happened 100 years on - I'd find that interesting and educational - is that not just what is being proposed ? I'm sure the same method of 'commemoration' will be adopted when we reach the centenary of the start of WW2 Nobody. However, "Call Me Dave" hasn't helped himself by trying to make a comparison with the Diamond Jubilee. https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/speech-at-imperial-war-museum-on-first-world-war-centenary-plans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandarilla Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Nobody. However, "Call Me Dave" hasn't helped himself by trying to make a comparison with the Diamond Jubilee. https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/speech-at-imperial-war-museum-on-first-world-war-centenary-plans The Diamond Jubilee did not make me feel connected to a sense of nationhood like he seems to think it did. I fucking hate middle England. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reynard Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 The Diamond Jubilee did not make me feel connected to a sense of nationhood like he seems to think it did. I fucking hate middle England. You hate middle England? fucking hell, you are a clown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reynard Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Nobody. However, "Call Me Dave" hasn't helped himself by trying to make a comparison with the Diamond Jubilee. https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/speech-at-imperial-war-museum-on-first-world-war-centenary-plans The OP suggest this. But he is a Scottish nationalist so its probably to be expected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandarilla Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 You hate middle England? fucking hell, you are a clown Hmmm. OK. I didn't think that was a particularly clownish comment but there you go. I feel like I should point out that I am in no way anti-English. Middle England is a state of mind (and a way of life) - Daily Mail reading, keeping up with the Joneses, royalists to the hilt. Cameron is trying to stir the patriotic blood of middle England and mentioning the centenary of the war in the same sentence as the Diamond fucking jubilee pretty much says it all. Of course he sees it as a celebration! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Half Rice Half Chips Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Baldrick and the education secretary having a bit of a squabble. Blackadder star Sir Tony Robinson in Michael Gove WW1 row. http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-25612369 A row has erupted between Sir Tony Robinson and Michael Gove after the education secretary claimed "left-wing academics" were using Blackadder "to feed myths" about World War One. Sir Tony, who played Baldrick in the BBC series, said Mr Gove was essentially "slagging off teachers". But Mr Gove said Sir Tony - a left wing activist - was "wrong" and he had not been attacking teachers, just "myths". The row comes ahead of centenary commemorations for the outbreak of WW1. The final series of Blackadder - set in the trenches of WW1 - depicts Britain's military leaders as cowards and buffoons, in common with earlier fictional accounts of the conflict such as the 1960s musical farce Oh, What a Lovely War! Mr Gove told the Daily Mail on Thursday, that people's understanding of the war had been overlaid by "misrepresentations" which at worst reflected "an unhappy compulsion on the part of some to denigrate virtues such as patriotism, honour and courage". "The war was, of course, an unspeakable tragedy, which robbed this nation of our bravest and best," wrote Mr Gove. "But even as we recall that loss and commemorate the bravery of those who fought, it's important that we don't succumb to some of the myths which have grown up about the conflict." He added: "The conflict has, for many, been seen through the fictional prism of dramas such as Oh, What a Lovely War!, The Monocled Mutineer and Blackadder, as a misbegotten shambles - a series of catastrophic mistakes perpetrated by an out-of-touch elite. "Even to this day there are left-wing academics all too happy to feed those myths." Some scenes in Oh, What a Lovely War! were based on historian and Conservative politician Alan Clark's revisionist history of WW1, The Donkeys, which is credited with starting the trend for unflattering portrayals of WW1 top brass. Speaking to Sky News on Sunday, Sir Tony, a former member of Labour's ruling National Executive Committee, said: "I think Mr Gove has just made a very silly mistake; it's not that Blackadder teaches children the First World War. "When imaginative teachers bring it in, it's simply another teaching tool; they probably take them over to Flanders to have a look at the sights out there, have them marching around the playground, read the poems of Wilfred Owen to them. And one of the things that they'll do is show them Blackadder. "And I think to make this mistake, to categorise teachers who would introduce something like Blackadder as left-wing and introducing left-wing propaganda is very, very unhelpful. And I think it's particularly unhelpful and irresponsible for a minister in charge of education." The actor and Labour activist said it was "just another example of slagging off teachers," adding: "I don't think that's professional or appropriate." But a spokesman for Michael Gove hit back at his comments. "Tony Robinson is wrong. Michael wasn't attacking teachers, he was attacking the myths perpetuated in Blackadder and elsewhere," said the spokesman. "Michael thinks it is important not to denigrate the patriotism, honour and courage demonstrated by ordinary British soldiers in the First World War." Earlier, shadow education secretary and TV historian Tristram Hunt also criticised Mr Gove's "crass" comments. In an article in The Observer, the Labour MP wrote: "The reality is clear: the government is using what should be a moment for national reflection and respectful debate to rewrite the historical record and sow political division." In October, BBC Newsnight presenter Jeremy Paxman, who has written a book to tie in with the centenary of the start of WW1, criticised schools for relying on episodes of Blackadder Goes Forth to teach pupils about the conflict. The following month, Conservative defence minister Andrew Murrison, a former Royal Navy surgeon, said: "We risk disconnection from a defining event of our time and an opportunity, perhaps, to balance the Oh! What A Lovely War/Blackadder take on history, that has sadly been in the ascendant for the past 50 years." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ziggy Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Sir Tony Robinson. Really? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Half Rice Half Chips Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Sir Tony Robinson. Really? Apparently. Actually the report mentioned Alan Clark's "Donkeys" (1961) as beginning a trend for unflattering portrayals of WWI commanders, but Stanley Kubrick's 1957 film "Paths to Glory" with Kirk Douglas portrayed French high command as not only incompetent but borderline evil in the treatment of their own soldiers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbornbairn Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Things like that happened a lot more recently than WW1. In the Falklands war the only troops sent by English regiments were 4 light tanks and associated personel from the blues and royals. None of the equipment made the beach. Everything else was UK wide regiments like the SAS or paras or troops from anywhere except England. Generally places where the tories got very few votes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todders Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 So much for the sombre commemoration the centenary was supposed to be. I'm speechless! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ned Nederlander Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 I watched it with the sound down 'cause I'm at work so I may be missing a large part of what's leaving you speechless but from memory that song was a major boost to morale during WW1 so perhaps it it reasonably appropriate for raising funds. There's a distinct lack of Senior Service involvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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