Mark Connolly Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 What jingoistic plans are in place? The following year is going to piss you off even further. 200th anniversary of spanking Napoleon at Waterloo while you sit amidst the rubble of a failed referendum and losing the majority at the flat pack parliament. YAAAAAS! Giving Johnny Foreigner a damn good thrashing should be celebrated at every opportunity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamaldo Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 Not surprised to see the usual suspects making a complete c**t of themselves on this type of thread, as per usual. This isn't to do with being pro-independence, this is to do with not celebrating killing loads of fucking Germans decades ago at the end of every year. Remind the young of the atrocities of war, so that it doesn't happen again?? It's happening NOW for f**k sake! We're in a war now! Maybe if we weren't constantly talking about wars as if they were a great event then loads of young people wouldn't be brainwashed into getting a taste for it themselves. Just leave them in the past for god sake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandarilla Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 There has been a conscious effort by right wing historians recently (spearheaded by Gove and the Daily Mail's Max Hastings) to 're-evaluate' the First World War and discredit the Blackadder version of history. They were also slagging the war poets who in my opinion had every fucking right to criticise the horrible clusterfuck that was 1914-18. There is no doubt the Tories will use this opportunity to wrap the nation in a giant Union Jack and get all sentimental and patriotic. This will have numerous benefits for Cameron and co: - he will get to act like a leader and look sombre - grass-root Tories will be inspired and give them a wee boost ahead of the wide-open general election - it will also help to focus minds in Scotland on how great the union used to be (if you're into that sort of thing) Those nationalists on here claiming some kind of conspiracy are numpties. Its fortunate timing and the Better Together campaign will understandably try to exploit it to its fullest. The Yes campaign will do exactly the same with both the Commonwealth Games and the 700th anniversary of Bannockburn. There's no doubt that the organised events for 2014 regarding the war centenary will go a bit over the top and jingoistic because some folk love that sort of shit and its certainly an easy thing for TV producers to create. They love it. But as a history teacher I am very much in favour of the date being highlighted and given some respectful recognition. Jeremy Paxman is doing the main BBC documentary series and generally speaking I'm looking forward to it. The end of the war will also be given coverage in 2018 - and rightly so. All this happened in the 90s regarding the 50th anniversary of the major events of WWII. To be honest I can't remember (too young unfortunately) whether or not there was a big deal to mark the 50th anniversary of the start of the war in 1989 but I'm almost certain there would've been. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MONKMAN Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 Couldn't stand the Aussies though, whiny lot apparently. Understandable, I lived in Australia for a year and the majority of them are c***s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 There has been a conscious effort by right wing historians recently (spearheaded by Gove and the Daily Mail's Max Hastings) to 're-evaluate' the First World War and discredit the Blackadder version of history. They were also slagging the war poets who in my opinion had every fucking right to criticise the horrible clusterfuck that was 1914-18. There is no doubt the Tories will use this opportunity to wrap the nation in a giant Union Jack and get all sentimental and patriotic. This will have numerous benefits for Cameron and co: - he will get to act like a leader and look sombre - grass-root Tories will be inspired and give them a wee boost ahead of the wide-open general election - it will also help to focus minds in Scotland on how great the union used to be (if you're into that sort of thing) Those nationalists on here claiming some kind of conspiracy are numpties. Its fortunate timing and the Better Together campaign will understandably try to exploit it to its fullest. The Yes campaign will do exactly the same with both the Commonwealth Games and the 700th anniversary of Bannockburn. There's no doubt that the organised events for 2014 regarding the war centenary will go a bit over the top and jingoistic because some folk love that sort of shit and its certainly an easy thing for TV producers to create. They love it. But as a history teacher I am very much in favour of the date being highlighted and given some respectful recognition. Jeremy Paxman is doing the main BBC documentary series and generally speaking I'm looking forward to it. The end of the war will also be given coverage in 2018 - and rightly so. All this happened in the 90s regarding the 50th anniversary of the major events of WWII. To be honest I can't remember (too young unfortunately) whether or not there was a big deal to mark the 50th anniversary of the start of the war in 1989 but I'm almost certain there would've been. I can't claim I was too young in 1989, but I don't recall an anniversary commeration/whatever to mark the start of World War Two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WILLIEA Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 I can't claim I was too young in 1989, but I don't recall an anniversary commeration/whatever to mark the start of World War Two. Nah, Wasn't one as I recall. What kind of idiot commemorates the START of a war?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scary Bear Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 I recall NATO celebrated 40 years in 1989. Irrelevant fact of the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cardinal Richelieu Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 Can only echo what other people are saying. Like many wars, the reason why we went to war in 1914 was farcical, and the fact that millions of young men were forced into trenches and made to face certain death by charging into enemy machine-gun fire should only be a cause for apology and a sincere commitment not to make the same mistakes again. As the then prime minister, David Lloyd George said to the editor of the Manchester Guardian at the time, "If people knew the truth, the war would be stopped tomorrow". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Rational Posted January 5, 2014 Author Share Posted January 5, 2014 There's an argument that the first changed/scarred the country way more than the second and if Paxman is doing the documentary, I reckon it will be a sobering account of it and I'm all for that. As for the timing? I'm more pissed off that they are marking the start of the war instead of the end of it, Paxman nailed it completely. Edit - one of the most sobering things I have ever seen lies in a display cabinet in the imperial war museum in London. It's about 3 inches long an is metal. Just a plain old train whistle, nothing special about it, you used to hear them all the time. Except this one was blown on the first day of the Somme, just before ordinary men, folk like me and you who wouldn't have had a choice, went up ladders, over the top and marched in their thousands to their deaths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 Nah, Wasn't one as I recall. What kind of idiot commemorates the START of a war?? Somebody who wasn't in it, I suppose... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 There's an argument that the first changed/scarred the country way more than the second and if Paxman is doing the documentary, I reckon it will be a sobering account of it and I'm all for that. As for the timing? I'm more pissed off that they are marking the start of the war instead of the end of it, Paxman nailed it completely. It was certainly burned into the national psyche for many years - my mother went on about the First World War (in which we didn't lose any (close) relatives and which finished 5 years before she was born) than the Second World War ( in which she did lose a relative). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Rational Posted January 5, 2014 Author Share Posted January 5, 2014 I think it still is to an extent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 I think it still is to an extent. You're probably right - being an old fart i didn't want to presume that young shavers barely out of their teens are still affected by it. You only have to look at the horrendous list of names from the Great War on any war memorial to realise the effect it must have had on close knit communities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cardinal Richelieu Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 You're probably right - being an old fart i didn't want to presume that young shavers barely out of their teens are still affected by it. You only have to look at the horrendous list of names from the Great War on any war memorial to realise the effect it must have had on close knit communities. I went to school in Northern Ireland, where conscription didn't take place. However, most of the 6th year at my school signed up voluntarily and half of them died. And for what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 I went to school in Northern Ireland, where conscription didn't take place. However, most of the 6th year at my school signed up voluntarily and half of them died. And for what? Those from what is now Northern Ireland ( + protestants from Donegal, Cavan & Monaghan) fought to keep Ireland in the Union. Those from what is now the Republic of Ireland (+ roman catholics from what is now Northern Ireland) fought for Irish Home Rule. The Battle of the Somme still has enormous significance in Northern Ireland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Rational Posted January 5, 2014 Author Share Posted January 5, 2014 I'm a middle aged old fart and old enough to remember my great grandad who served in the Watch talking about it. He was damned lucky to be called up in the middle of 18, and arrived in France just after hostilities finished otherwise I doubt I would be posting today. He actually was on the train at Castlecary that crashed, so doubly lucky I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparky88 Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 Buckled lefty c***s, blah blah blah. Pretty much every one of your arguments that I have ever seen is based around the right of the political spectrum.Not far right before you go down that route. I don't mean that Is remembering a war a right wing thing to do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Rational Posted January 5, 2014 Author Share Posted January 5, 2014 Those from what is now Northern Ireland ( + protestants from Donegal, Cavan & Monaghan) fought to keep Ireland in the Union. Those from what is now the Republic of Ireland (+ roman catholics from what is now Northern Ireland) fought for Irish Home Rule. The Battle of the Somme still has enormous significance in Northern Ireland. I think the Ulster Division was the only success on the day, they let their troops get as close to the German lines as they could and didn't load them like pack mules. I think they stormed the German trenches about 2 minutes after the barrage stopped iirc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tongue_tied_danny Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 I think the Ulster Division was the only success on the day, they let their troops get as close to the German lines as they could and didn't load them like pack mules. I think they stormed the German trenches about 2 minutes after the barrage stopped iirc. I'm pretty sure it was on a documentary a few years ago that pals battalion made up of Glasgow market traders did the same and took their objective with fewer casualties than other units. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reynard Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 YAAAAAS! Giving Johnny Foreigner a damn good thrashing should be celebrated at every opportunity. I wouldn't say that, but remembering the carnage and loss of life that states can cause with their pish definitely IS worth remembering. Not that any good ever comes of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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