Euro Election May 22nd.

[Ad Lib]

Nick Clegg looks like he's aged about 15 years since the election.

He looks utterly crestfallen.

[Fotbawmad]

A very rational and reasoned post Chris but I think you dismiss the media impact too easily. Large chunks of the Scottish electorate are either very tuned in when it comes to politics or at least have established roots that aren't going to be swayed easily - but there is a large mass of people out there who follow the trends. They are massively susceptible to media coverage and UKIP have never had it so good in that regards. I find it pretty scandalous actually.

In terms of the referendum the Yes campaign will also have to battle this issue - and I fear it could be the decider that just sways the result in favour of No. I'm a traditional Scottish sceptic though.

This is why I've always been in favour of some kind of meritocracy. Polititions do not care about the long term implications of thier policies as long they can get your vote in the next election. The biggest flaw in our system is that the effects of bad policy can be passed onto the next generation of voters. We're only just starting to feel the effects of bad policy which was established decades ago. This video shows that voters in general, especially women will often choose to live off everyone else, and not want to suffer the consequences for the bad choices they've made in life. They're very effective at doing it, because they and politicians can rely on emotional blackmail to get their way. This video summons it up best

[Guest]

Ab lib, I've not read this thread but are you still behind Clegg as a Party Leader? And Rennie, in Scotland, for that matter?

On a seperate note here is what one of our new MEPs had to say today:

"Mr Coburn said his aim as an MEP was to keep "Scottish business and Scottish people aware of some of the crazy things going on in Europe that will affect their businesses and their jobs".

When challenged by presenter Gary Robertson to name some specific examples, Mr Coburn replied: "Off the top of my head I can't think but there's so many of them"."

[Ad Lib]

I think an election pact between the Tories and UKIP, fielding joint candidates in some marginal seats is entirely possible. It was talked about last night, if that happened you could see half a dozen or a dozen 'UKIP' MPs or something.

You can imagine a UKIP candidate would be more appealing than a Tory in a tradition working class 'white van man' type constituency that has voted Conservative in the past or did in 2010.

Let's not forget UKIP would sooner send the bulldozers down to Hollyrood than give us any further powers. This result makes a majority Labour government in 2015 look ever more unlikely.

Strong UKIP doesn't make a majority Labour government less likely. It splits the right-wing vote in the south allowing Labour to become competitive on a poorer share of the vote. Even with an informal pact, you're only going to see UKIP stand down candidates in marginals, just bringing things back to what they were before.

[Broccoli Dog]

No. They're not liberal.

Argue from within the party, join the Greens, form an independent Liberal party.*

*as a Yes voter you would have to consider that at some point anyway

[Ad Lib]

Ab lib, I've not read this thread but are you still behind Clegg as a Party Leader? And Rennie, in Scotland, for that matter?

I don't think replacing either of them at this time provides any strategic advantage either to the Federal or the Scottish Parties.

[blanco]

I think it's very simplistic (and wrong) to suggest everyone who has concerns over immigration and/or who is opposed to EU membership is a rabid right winger.

Labelling them racists and xenophobes is the lazy option and doesn't seem to be working as effectively any more when you look at the euro votes.

[Ad Lib]

Argue from within the party, join the Greens, form an independent Liberal party.

No. The SNP are a fundamentally illiberal party. I won't join the Greens because they are far too economically leftist and still offer no more influence over the mainstream political agenda than the Lib Dems (in addition to their anti-science attitudes towards GM crops) and creating a new party would be a total waste of time.

[LinkinFighter]

Speaking as someone who considers myself quite emphatically to be on the liberal wing of the Liberal Democrats, the Tories do not represent me at all. There may well be liberals in the Tories with whom I have more in common than social democrats on the left of our party, but as a political entity I could never bring myself to join or support a party which has such a Neanderthal-like grass roots and hostile attitudes towards immigration, the EU, welfare, secularism, civil liberties, a more than equivocal record on environmentalism and a lack of commitment to challenging vested interests in, especially, the financial sector and more besides. If the Lib Dems actually fold rather than just take a significant kickingin 2015, I'll more than likely drop out of party politics all together.

There surely must be at least one other party who mirrors your views?

[Ad Lib]

There surely must be at least one other party who mirrors your views?

Not in the UK.

[Enigma]

Strong UKIP doesn't make a majority Labour government less likely. It splits the right-wing vote in the south allowing Labour to become competitive on a poorer share of the vote. Even with an informal pact, you're only going to see UKIP stand down candidates in marginals, just bringing things back to what they were before.

True, true, but IMO Labour just isn't polling or looking like a party who are going to win a majority of seats in a years time. I think Labour will win the most seats in a hung parliament. I think a Conservative - UKIP joint coupon in the 60 or so marginals could be pretty effective. It encourages conservative voters who wouldn't normally vote UKIP in those constituencies to do so, and (perhaps more importantly) vice versa. Your typical UKIP voter in the shires will switch back to Conservatives to keep Labour out in a general election. Labour had a terrible night last night.

[Jacksgranda]

You'll be able to count the number of seats UKIP get in the General Election on zero hands.

Particularly if Sharia Law is introduced...

[Jamaldo]

Not happy with UKIP getting a seat. Genuinely didn't think it would happen.

I blame the Lib Dems for being shite.

[Granny Danger]

Name me one legitimate concern about immigration.

By 'legitimate' do you mean something that you agree with? You fall into the trap of espousing the view that if your view differs from someone else's then theirs is not legitimate.

Personally I have a concern about employers being able to offer shity wages because there will be a group of folk, including to a large extent immigrants, who will accept them. So rather than a strong buoyant economy we continue down the road of a low wage economy. People barely making enough money to live on whilst they are working and certainly unable to contribute towards a decent retirement, leading to a state dependant ageing population.

[yoda]

I'm not concerned about UKIP getting a seat. It's an anti-EU vote as opposed to a pro-Union vote (anyway, one pro-Union party has taken a seat from another pro-Union party rather than a pro-Union party gaining a seat).

The negative is that a campaign based on fear-mongering has had some success (albeit limited) in Scotland.

As for UKIP at the GE in 2015? I doubt they'll win any more than 4 seats.

[Scary Bear]

There were a lot of parties that stood. Who are the An Independence From Europe party? I've never heard of them, yet they got 235,124 votes.

[Gordon EF]

i can't see Labour getting a majority at all.

Can't see the Tories doing it either and I think some kind of deal between Tories and UKIP would make a lot of electoral sense. If they do that, I'd expect a Tory/UKIP majority. If not, possibly a Lab/Lib Dem majority government?

[Mr Bairn]

ukip arent against devolution, they just want Scottish MPs to sit in Holyrood one day a week to discuss devolved issues and sack all the MSPs. It's a fucking stupid policy, but it's not correct to call them anti-devolution

[Gordon EF]

There were a lot of parties that stood. Who are the An Independence From Europe party? I've never heard of them, yet they got 235,124 votes.

I suspect many people who voted for them thought they were voting for UKIP. They appeared top of the ballot paper and, at first, I thought it was some slogan UKIP were using to go top of the ballot, similar to 'Alex Slamond for First Minister'.

[Sherrif John Bunnell]

There were a lot of parties that stood. Who are the An Independence From Europe party? I've never heard of them, yet they got 235,124 votes.

UKIP splinter group who chose their name to make make sure they were top of the ballot papers. Plenty of simpletons must have glanced at their name and tagline and thought it was Farage's crew they were voting for.