Monkey Tennis Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 Unless Keane improves on Lennon's champions league showings, either by going a round further ( ) or doing ti twice, he wouldn't be. Or by winning Cup ties against teams with a tiny fraction of their resources. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banterman86 Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 Or by winning Cup ties against teams with a tiny fraction of their resources. Nah, I've made this points numerous times, you can't legislate for one-off games. They were embarssing for Lennon (and starcha and O'Neil before him) but anyone can lose a one off game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thumper Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 you can't legislate for one-off games. So what's so great about not winning the UEFA Cup? (and with comparable resources to most of the opposition, no less) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banterman86 Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 So what's so great about not winning the UEFA Cup? (and with comparable resources to most of the opposition, no less) You seem to be of the opinion that i hold St Martin above all Celtic managers, you'll recall I don;t, and I;m firmly in the Strachan > o'Neill camp. the last 16 of the CL is a better acheivement tahn a Uefa Cup Final, although the latter is certainly a better day out. Worth noting though, that you don't make a Uefa cup final through one off games but two -legged ties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dee Man Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 Nah, I've made this points numerous times, you can't legislate for one-off games. They were embarssing for Lennon (and starcha and O'Neil before him) but anyone can lose a one off game. Yes, but he lost one-off games that he should have won on numerous occasions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thumper Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 You seem to be of the opinion that i hold St Martin above all Celtic managers Oh no, I'm just trolling your compatriots. "You" is meant for the slavvering, tricolour-wrapped hordes. Who would most certainly put Strachan last on a list of "most successful Celtic managers" today if given a list of Martin O'Neill, Gordon Strachan, Neil Lennon and Roy Keane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banterman86 Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 Yes, but he lost one-off games that he should have won on numerous occasions. But as I said, you can't legislate for one off games. I was against Lennon initially because on the Ross County debacle. In reality he showed himself to be a very good Celtic boss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dee Man Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 But as I said, you can't legislate for one off games. I was against Lennon initially because on the Ross County debacle. In reality he showed himself to be a very good Celtic boss If by "very good" you mean shite, then yes, I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banterman86 Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 If by "very good" you mean shite, then yes, I agree. He was very good - a club like Celtic have no business being in the last 16 of the CL. It was a terrific achievement which Strachan was rightly praised for on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banterman86 Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 Lennon was a complete failure in the cups, league meh... when rangers died so did our competition for the league, before they died and got a point reduction Im not sure Lennon would of won a league with Celtic, probably not.. m... It was genuinely gutting Celtic won that league by more than the deduction. The seethe would have been glorious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingrodent Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 As I said earlier you can't really compare either. O'Neill took over a team that got humped by 20 odd points in the league the previous season, won us our first treble since the days of Stein, took us into the Champions League for the first time, and reached a European final again for the first time since the days of Stein. To be fair, O'Neill inherited a team with Henrik Larsson, Stilian Petrov, Paul Lambert, Lubo Moravcik and Johann Mjallby in it, then got a massive fund to spend on players. Strachan didn't - just think how much easier his job would've been if he'd had a younger Larsson alone in his team. On balance, I'd say that Strachan has the harder job there, but like you say it's hard to compare. They were both excellent, in my view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AberdeenBud Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 Still kind of Peter Lawell/DD to confirm that Top Trumps rating is more important than managerial ability or experience if Keane gets the nod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~~~ Posted May 30, 2014 Author Share Posted May 30, 2014 To be fair, O'Neill inherited a team with Henrik Larsson, Stilian Petrov, Paul Lambert, Lubo Moravcik and Johann Mjallby in it, then got a massive fund to spend on players. Strachan didn't - just think how much easier his job would've been if he'd had a younger Larsson alone in his team. On balance, I'd say that Strachan has the harder job there, but like you say it's hard to compare. They were both excellent, in my view. I understand, but don't forget just how shite we had been the year before, and for the previous decade except for the season under Wim. Also I'm talking just as a fan. Winning trebles, Champions League, European Finals Ooft! Never experienced such success like that before. It was a magnificent time for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 Yes, but he lost one-off games that he should have won on numerous occasions. Indeed. Losing one-off games in Cup ties is a problem because in the context of those competitions, you can't afford to lose them. Celtic only lost three time domestically last season, but two of those defeats were hugely costly. Lennon was a failure. Any idiot could do better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~~~ Posted May 30, 2014 Author Share Posted May 30, 2014 Indeed. Losing one-off games in Cup ties is a problem because in the context of those competitions, you can't afford to lose them. Celtic only lost three time domestically last season, but two of those defeats were hugely costly. Lennon was a failure. Any idiot could do better. Celtic fans must have very low exceptions compared to everyone else in Scotland They keep telling us Lennon was a failure, even when we take into consideration what he had to do after the shambles Mowbray was sacked. Ah well, at least we know they're right about Victor Wanyama being shite and getting shown up in England Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booker-T Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 Even McCoist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 Even McCoist? Any other idiot then. Actually, even McCoist would stroll to the title with Celtic and could certainly do no worse in Cups. Europe might stretch him, but Lennon's spell in charge has not been the unqualified success in this arena that people like to pretend it's been either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 They keep telling us Lennon was a failure, even when we take into consideration what he had to do after the shambles Mowbray was sacked. Mowbray would have done at least as well as Lennon, probably better, had he been lucky enough to manage Celtic in a Rangersless landscape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macshimmy Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 An excellent choice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingrodent Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 I understand, but don't forget just how shite we had been the year before, and for the previous decade except for the season under Wim. Also I'm talking just as a fan. Winning trebles, Champions League, European Finals Ooft! Never experienced such success like that before. It was a magnificent time for us. Again, one of the main reasons we'd been shite the year before was that Henrik Larsson broke his leg. IIRC, John Barnes actually had one of the best starts to the season of any Celtic manager, up until that catastrophe, and it all went shit-shaped almost immediately after. Nonetheless though, I see exactly why you love O'Neill's Celtic so much, and I totally agree - an absolutely stupendous period, and we were lucky to see it. I'm just saying, I think Strachan far exceeded expectations, and had a harder job than MON did, given what he had to play with. Edit to add: I was sitting in the Jock Stein stand when Lubo trapped the ball with his arse in that drubbing of Hearts, and I remember how good it looked then, before it all went wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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