goodold luthgy Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Some of us go on as if we are winning the super league and the junior cup every season, so it's now getting boring. let's move on. We have still to reach the standards set with Auchinleck, which is what we should be striving towards. Our level just now is, we are in the top 3 best teams in our league, and probably in the top 6 in the juniors. Let's get to the very top year in year out, like Talbot, and then let's make a decision if we get bored winning cups and leagues in the junior ranks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supermiller Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Is Kelbie still injured? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 We have to many teams for the population of Scotland, to many teams who have no fanbase and in some cases have survived due to money men who have flung money at buying success then when they leave the team goes into terminal decline. (St Josephs). I believe we have a diluted product and that is why Scottish football is failing (IMO). We have more clubs struggling than thriving - to many clubs chasing a limited financial pot/fanbase - to many clubs fighting over a limited number of decent players. All this reduces the standards. Football should be no different than any other business and that means at time you need to make cuts to take the business forward. I just feel we are rebranding a failing product and avoiding dealing with the real issues first. We have as many teams as we have adult males wanting to play football of Saturday afternoon. And if Linlithgow Rose (or anyone else) were to move up, that would mean another club moving down. I don't have a problem with people just being against the pyramid much as I find that personally disappointing, but I find this particular reasoning a very strange argument against. I also find criticism or side-lining of Ross County a bit strange. They've played in the top-tier for several seasons, and in a cup final and come close to Europe. Your comments about "what to they bring to the table" and "filling a space" and "being also-rans", almost makes it sounds as if you wonder why they bother. And if it's about domination by a small elite, that's little different to the Juniors lately. I'm also surprised to see Rose fans talking down their prospects of getting good crowds if they reached SPFL. Normally it's the other way with Junior fans and crowds... or are people just saying this as an argument against when at heart they think otherwise? Every club which entered SFL has grown crowds, usually substantial. Maybe Rose haven't that latent support, tbf. EDIT: Btw, I would fully agree with a couple of comments which touched on that idea of Rose having to go through the EOS First & Premier divisions to reach LL. However, I would also observe that such a scenario needn't ever require to exist on paper - if the Junior regions as a whole choose to join the pyramid, they would be placed alongside the EOS and SOS (and hopefully merge with/absorb them), not beneath. Where such a scenario arises, once the last LL vacancies have gone, is if the Juniors say "no" but individual clubs are interested. Clearly, those clubs point-of-entry would be hampered by their compatriots unwillingness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodold luthgy Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Is Kelbie still injured? He came on in the second half on Sat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auld Heid Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 HTG - where do Celtic go? They are currently top of the tree and have been for a number of seasons now? In junior circles I would say Good Old (other than his last sentence) largely sums up my feelings on the subject. I suggest that Celtic largely look upon the Champions League as the top junior clubs look upon the SFA Cup. We took the enlightened step of insuring our entry by being licensed (although the SFA may want to change the goalposts to suit) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Celtic are at the top level, there is nowhere higher to go; and they would join a higher league (e.g. European Superleague) if they could. Neither of those comparisons apply to Rose. You aren't at the top level, and there is somewhere higher to go; and you could join a higher league and you can. I appreciate your own view may be that Junior football is seperate, so you are already at the top, but that's becoming a harder argument to make with the pyramid starting, you taking-out (Senior) SFA membership and embarking on campaign #4 in the (Senior) Scottish Cup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTG Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Celtic are only bound by geography. They are the pinnacle of achievement in the domestic game. That's the same in every league on the planet. But very few put a barrier in to their system that stops teams moving freely based on ability. I'm sorry for boring people but when scenarios such as Celtic are pushed forward that can't be allowed to stand without comment - there is absolute no relevance here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auld Heid Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Celtic are only bound by geography. They are the pinnacle of achievement in the domestic game. That's the same in every league on the planet. But very few put a barrier in to their system that stops teams moving freely based on ability. I'm sorry for boring people but when scenarios such as Celtic are pushed forward that can't be allowed to stand without comment - there is absolute no relevance here. So geography is an acceptable barrier? The pinnacle in our domestic game but not europe or the world - so geography has now stopped the next stage for them. Where does realism fit in and there are possibly steps to far - and i don't just refer to footballing steps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 I don't follow. There is no European / World League. They play in the Scottish Premiership and UEFA Champions League, the highest levels they possibly can. They haven't wanted to go no higher than (say) the Scottish Championship, or not play in Europe. If there was a Euro League, they'd join. There is no comparison between the situation you advocate for Rose, and the situation with Celtic. Your vision for Rose is either that the club can never do better than it does now (or did in 2006-07 certainly) - or that you are happier not going higher than you are now as you'd prefer things to stay as they are, and/or be perceived as a big fish in a seperate pond. Celtic want to be the very best they can be within the current structures and would aspire to more if the opportunity ever presented itself. Celtic want to play in the Scottish Premiership and the Champions League, and aspire to winning both, exceptionally difficult as the latter is. They would like to play in the Club World Cup and in some World or Euro League, if either ever became possible. Your aligning of their situation with your vision for Rose isn't real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Specky Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 This threads gotten as long winded and as heated as the Independance debate the last couple of days![/quoteCareful caravan boy, that'll start a whole new bun fight !!!... but as a comparison it is similar in that we are being asked to consider a hypothetical vision of the future which can be painted to suit whichever way a side wants it to versus what we have now .... Im not into romance (just ask Mrs Specky) of the vision of the future, as I think there are still too many unknown and variables which we are filling in with what WE think will happen but shouting loudest and most frequently does not make it definite or everyone's opinion, it just makes it YOUR vision of what you want to happen. Input on the subject of the future over back to this season !.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerrome Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 I;m really looking forward to the HOB game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodold luthgy Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Very pleased to hear that jerrome Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Specky Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 ame="Specky" post="8707475" timestamp="1408632158"] What? 8mile - caravan park ... jeez you not up on your Eminem ..... :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanburn Dave Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 This threads gotten as long winded and as heated as the Independance debate the last couple of days! I will be voting NO purely on the basis Alex Salmond was born in Linlithgow...................SIMPLES !!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanburn Dave Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 I;m really looking forward to the HOB game Rookie mistake jerrome.........never interupt an HTG rant to discuss a football match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auld Heid Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 8mile - caravan park ... jeez you not up on your Eminem ..... :-) I like the peanut ones the best!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gudderman Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 You're still missing my point but if you don't want to read it then stick me on Ignore and the problem will resolve itself. I don't know where you get the idea that I see the LL as a stepping stone to great things. I just see it as a tier of Scottish football - one from which you can move up or down as your ability dictates. I'd rather be stuck on the side of a pyramid with the ability to move than stuck under it. As things stand, we play in the East Juniors where broadly we play the same teams year in and year out. The only reason there is change is because some teams go down but none go up from the league we play in. Where have I stopped people having an opinion? If I disagree I will say so. See this stuff about playing Bonnyrigg or Camelon - it's misty-eyed nonsense. I go to watch the Rose and I scarcely know who is in the other team unless they've played for us at some point. Let me give you a work analogy. Two guys work in an office and sit beside each other - Sparty and Lithgy. They do pretty much the same job - low level technical stuff. When Sparty joined the company, he signed a contract which allowed him to move freely through the company hierarchy if he showed the ability to do so. Strangely, Lithgy signed a contract which prevented him from ever being promoted. Everyone accepted that he was a good worker - as good as Sparty in fact. But they made it very clear that for as long as he worked for this company he would never be allowed to apply for or be nominated for jobs in the company at a level commensurate with his talent. Within a short time, Sparty moved away from Lithgy and, although they still saw each other in the passing (maybe when there was a cup conference), Lithgy stayed just where he was until retiring 35 years later. Sparty signed his contract because he knew that as his future unfolded, he'd meet different colleagues and the company structure would change and maybe offer him opportunities he couldn't have with the contract Lithgy had signed. Lithgy signed his contract because he had a right good group of pals around him and wasn't too fussed about moving. One of his best pals was a boy called Whitburn. For some reason, he started to see less and less of Whitburn until they were no more than acquaintances. Other people moved in around him - they came and they went (down but never up). Lithgy just sat there whilst the landscape changed around him. He knew he could do better but he was frightened to take risks so he wrapped himself in his comfort blanket and watched whippersnappers coming in and progressing past him using the Sparty contract. With hindsight, Lithgy started to recognise that if everyone like him had signed the Sparty contract it would have made much more sense - the company would be able to reward talent whilst the employees would be able to find their proper level in the hierarchy and manage their development accordingly. But because he had signed a contract where he could only hit his head off the company ceiling, Lithgy started to get lazy and wonder whether it was worth all the bother. Nobody paid much attention to him, nobody allocated his workload until 10 minutes before he was due to start work, the bonuses for doing well were capped and frozen for years on end. Some folk thought Lithgy had it right - no pressure and no need to try to be better. Others thought he must have been daft to sign up to that contract. Sounds awfy like the story on Facebook with the wee boy asking his Granda (in a hypothetical 40 years time) why he never voted yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gudderman Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 I will be voting NO purely on the basis Alex Salmond was born in Linlithgow...................SIMPLES !!!! And he's a Hearts supporter tae. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 8mile - caravan park ... jeez you not up on your Eminem ..... :-) Having had the dubious pleasure of visiting Detroit (best avoided) a few times I think the 8 Mile stuff refers to the name of a road and the area it runs through more than a trailer park. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parsforlife Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 The too few teams argument is nonsense, as HibbeeJibee say it's only restrained by the numbers playing, the rest is irelevent. Calling for a cull, ffs get rid of the Ross county's, st Johnstone, east Stirlingshire, Dunfermline etc what do we gain from that? What's the ideal here? 2 teams playing 40 x a season in between champions league matches? What makes a team worthy? I'm sure if your dismissive to a team like county then just about everybody else must be on your list. You think we would just all go support what's left? You enjoy the east of Scotland vs west of scotland match, I doubt i'll be there. We pars fans as well as (too many) others have had to fight rather hard to be able to keep our clubs alive. You think we would have done that if we would have been happy to go watch another side? Are you happy to see rose die for "the greater good". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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