MOFOREVER Posted September 25, 2014 Share Posted September 25, 2014 Everybody still happy with the pyramid system or is anybody wavering a bit on it yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cfcuk Posted September 25, 2014 Share Posted September 25, 2014 Everybody still happy with the pyramid system or is anybody wavering a bit on it yet? Even though it won't involve Clyde???? I don't really quite how it goes if say four years running Highland league teams got into the league where would teams put out the league go say for example it was Berwick arbroath would it be lowland league or Highland league Ok if it was Clyde we would go to lowland Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted September 26, 2014 Author Share Posted September 26, 2014 It's very simple. If a club based north of the Tay is relegated, it goes to HL. If a club based south of the Tay is relegated, it goes to LL. Obviously that may not last forever, but that's how it stands for the moment. Odds of HL clubs being promoted, 4yrs running, and southerly clubs being relegated 4yrs running, are exceptionally low. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BerwickMad Posted September 27, 2014 Share Posted September 27, 2014 I don't know how people can't grasp the simple concept if regional football in a national pyramid. You only need to look at the English non-league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drs Posted September 27, 2014 Share Posted September 27, 2014 Looks certain to be be Clyde going into the playoff unless they ditch Ferguson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cfcuk Posted September 27, 2014 Share Posted September 27, 2014 Looks certain to be be Clyde going into the playoff unless they ditch Ferguson. Go and put your money where your mouth is a bet a good amount us being bottom of the league Hooe u do cause we wil mm be nowhere near the bottom GIRUY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QPSAFalkirkFirm Posted September 28, 2014 Share Posted September 28, 2014 Go and put your money where your mouth is a bet a good amount us being bottom of the league Hooe u do cause we wil mm be nowhere near the bottom GIRUY Definitely a late-Saturday post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spidersman Posted September 28, 2014 Share Posted September 28, 2014 Even though it won't involve Clyde I don't really quite how it goes if say four years running Highland league teams got into the league where would teams put out the league go say for example it was Berwick arbroath would it be lowland league or Highland league Ok if it was Clyde we would go to lowland "I don't really quite how it goes if say 4 years running....." Sums up all Clyde posters on this site and why the supporters of every other League 2 team laugh at their wind up antics. Brain dead and sitting at a computer all day without a life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drs Posted September 28, 2014 Share Posted September 28, 2014 Go and put your money where your mouth is a bet a good amount us being bottom of the league Hooe u do cause we wil mm be nowhere near the bottom GIRUY Wit? lolz #bantz etc etc etc You have an utter abortion of a manager, unless you sack him you'll be shitting it come Christmas at the prospect of finding your rightful level alongside Stirling Uni and Selkirk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cfcuk Posted September 28, 2014 Share Posted September 28, 2014 "I don't really quite how it goes if say 4 years running....." Sums up all Clyde posters on this site and why the supporters of every other League 2 team laugh at their wind up antics. Brain dead and sitting at a computer all day without a life. Brilliant ???? Love the razor sharp wit of Scottish football's parasites ???? Hope the amateurs are enjoying their day in the sun ???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrigtonClyde Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 Everybody still happy with the pyramid system or is anybody wavering a bit on it yet? Double edged sword for me Mo. If based just on the principle of sport and giving teams a chance to progress, no problem with that If looking at it from the perspective of what it's likely to add to the game, I'd base that on what size of crowd a team can bring to away grounds and / or what set up they have to develop players who eventually go on to play at a higher or even international level. Can't compare the English league set up to Scotland because of the massive difference in population. England can sustain a far wider league structure Looking at the Highland & Lowland league teams, a number of them might bring as much to the table as some already in the lower senior leagues, but I can't see them adding anything significant. So I don't see it as as a bad thing or a great development, just a kind of "nothing" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hampden Diehard Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 Brilliant Love the razor sharp wit of Scottish football's parasites Hope the amateurs are enjoying their day in the sun It's great! Certainly better to be straining to see where the trapdoor is, than sitting right on top of it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted September 30, 2014 Author Share Posted September 30, 2014 Double edged sword for me Mo. If based just on the principle of sport and giving teams a chance to progress, no problem with that If looking at it from the perspective of what it's likely to add to the game, I'd base that on what size of crowd a team can bring to away grounds and / or what set up they have to develop players who eventually go on to play at a higher or even international level. Can't compare the English league set up to Scotland because of the massive difference in population. England can sustain a far wider league structure Looking at the Highland & Lowland league teams, a number of them might bring as much to the table as some already in the lower senior leagues, but I can't see them adding anything significant. So I don't see it as as a bad thing or a great development, just a kind of "nothing" For me it's not a criteria of any significance, but of course a club could easily "add" something to the SPFL without this being defined as generating bigger crowds or travelling supports than current clubs. For example if a club from the extreme north, or the Borders, or say East Kilbride get into the SPFL, that means the territory of the SPFL expands into new areas. There are also 2 institutional clubs in the LL just now - Edinburgh and Stirling universities - and if either of them ever made it in (Stirling most likely in all realism) that would also be something significant in the context of all sport. There could also be an argument that the exchange of clubs between SPFL, HL and LL could result in more 'strong' part-time clubs overall and that could be to the benefit of the game. Also the fact that clubs can no longer happily finish bottom without consequence "adds" something by making them have to try harder: that should make for more commitment, more interest, fewer meaningless matches. But as I say for me the "what will they bring?" question isn't a primary one. That isn't the main justification for the pyramid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrigtonClyde Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 For me it's not a criteria of any significance, but of course a club could easily "add" something to the SPFL without this being defined as generating bigger crowds or travelling supports than current clubs. For example if a club from the extreme north, or the Borders, or say East Kilbride get into the SPFL, that means the territory of the SPFL expands into new areas. There are also 2 institutional clubs in the LL just now - Edinburgh and Stirling universities - and if either of them ever made it in (Stirling most likely in all realism) that would also be something significant in the context of all sport. There could also be an argument that the exchange of clubs between SPFL, HL and LL could result in more 'strong' part-time clubs overall and that could be to the benefit of the game. Also the fact that clubs can no longer happily finish bottom without consequence "adds" something by making them have to try harder: that should make for more commitment, more interest, fewer meaningless matches. But as I say for me the "what will they bring?" question isn't a primary one. That isn't the main justification for the pyramid. As I said, if it's just in the spirit of sport, I can understand it and yes, it adds something to the lowest senior league But I doubt it'll add anything of note over the years. None of the teams have substantial fanbases or resources (aside from 1 or 2 sugar daddies) so it's just hard to get excited about it whether strongly for or against. They look most likely to be in the bottom 2 divisions As for the university teams, how are they funded, public money? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted September 30, 2014 Author Share Posted September 30, 2014 Depends on your definition of funded. No doubt some of their income will be disbursements from their institution, some of whose income will be from the government. (But of course that's the same with any university sports club, society, department, and so on). That will then combine with sponsorship, Alumni/FP clubs, fundraisers/donors, gate receipts, SFA money, etc. etc. None of their players are paid, AFAIA. Stirling do have some players effectively 'studying' football like professionals alongside the world of academia, some of whom are on scholarships: http://www.stir.ac.uk/sport/scholarships/football-men/ Footballers receive: Funding up to £4,000 per annum Academic flexibility the services of highly qualified and experienced coaching staff Up to 15 hours of football coaching each week Up to 4 hours fitness training per week Access to sport science support Opportunity to live on campus Essential clothing and equipment To be considered for a scholarship, players should: Hold - or be in the process of applying for - a place on an undergraduate or postgraduate degree programme at the University of Stirling. Have junior or senior international honours or be a former professional at Academy or senior club level. Be prepared to work hard towards improving their game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cfcuk Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 Don't think the concept was to bring teams in that would enhance crowds think it was more to give teams who developed into potential league teams the an avenue into the league , think it is probably a good thing and certainly will add a bit of freshness to the league , as for progression up the leagues can't really tell how that will go doubt many people thought ross county would be in the premier league .I would think that the Highland league clubs would probably have the best chance as a few have very wealthy backers I don't think you could rely in crowd revenue to get you there established teams struggle to increase crowds and I don't believe there are large amounts of fans waiting to support a new team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farflung lichtie Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 I think it's an intrinsically Good Thing, even though we're one of the teams that might run the gauntlet. Division 2 has been a bit of a dead end until now so a bit of turnover and associated pressure can only be good. For reasons of geography and demographics, it might not work as well here as the English pyramid does but that system has injected real dynamism/evolution into the structure that wasn't there earlier. It would be a lot healthier and more representative if the juniors joined in en masse Normally, a change of league - up or down - is fairly welcome just for a change of surroundings especially in these small divisions (playing each other 4 times + a year = that needs changed urgently) so dropping into the Highland League would be a novelty for a bit. Though personally I live in the central belt so would see a lot less of my team plus the fact that it might prove difficult escaping upwards again. Onwards and upwards or perhaps downwards but certainly not stagnating Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOFOREVER Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 This article was in the Montrose programme last week. Might interest some, might not. As we all know there is a potential ‘trapdoor’ at the end of this season whereby the bottom club in our division will have to play-off against the winners of another play-off contested by the winners of the Highland League and the winners of the Lowland League. The losers at the end of the day will then play in either the Highland or Lowland League depending on where the loser is based geographically. I know, I know, that sounds less than feasible unless you know the full ins and outs of it but this column is not about those ins and outs nor is it about the argument about whether there should be such a situation. The fact is that is the position whether you like it or not and I for one have voiced my opinion previously. This column today is to look at the actual logistics of what is required to survive on the right side of the safety net. It is not a pessimistic way of looking at it from a Montrose perspective because the situation applies to all ten clubs in Scottish League 2 this and every other league season from now on. Since the era of 10 teams playing each other 4 times started thus playing 36 league games the team finishing bottom of League 2 (or Division 3 as before) had the following points total and whilst I was at it I’ve also shown the points total of the second bottom team and how many points it took to get into the play-offs each season. In all the seasons shown it was 3 points for a win which also started in 1994/5. Season 10th place/points (9th/points) Last Play-off place/points total 94/5 Albion Rovers 18 40 East Stirlingshire 59 95/6 Albion Rovers 29 also 29 Ross County 53 96/7 Arbroath 31 33 Alloa Athletic 55 97/8 Dumbarton 31 38 East Stirlingshire 57 98/9 Montrose 30 31 Dumbarton 57 99/00 Albion Rovers 22 37 East Fife 59 00/01 Elgin City 22 26 East Fife 53 01/02 Queen’s Park 35 37 Peterhead 56 02/03 East Stirling 13 28 Peterhead 68 03/04 East Stirling 8 25 Peterhead 61 04/05 East Stirling 22 34 Queen’s Park 48 05/06 East Stirling 23 28 Arbroath 55 06/07 East Stirling 21 29 East Fife 67 07/08 Forfar Athletic 33 34 Arbroath 52 08/09 Elgin City 26 37 Stenhousemuir 56 09/10 Montrose 24 34 Queen’s Park 51 10/11 Clyde 32 34 Annan Athletic 59 11/12 East Stirling 24 35 Elgin City 57 12/13 East Stirling 29 40 Berwick Rangers 49 13/14 Queen’s Park 24 36 Clyde 57 And what can we deduce from all that? Personally I think the objective is always to regard the ‘safety net’ as a point more than the previous highest bottom club total which according to the above table is 35 achieved by bottom club Queen’s Park in 2001/2 – so the first target is to get 36 points. After that it’s a question of how close you can get to the next target which is the minimum points required to get into the play-offs. That’s my opinion by looking at it in a statistical way but as well as statistics you need to look at what else affects the situation psychologically. For example before the pyramid system started a team having a hard time could rest assured that they would still be in the SPFL the next season even if they finished bottom of the pile so they could take time to re-group because other than the ignominy of finishing bottom there was nothing worse to follow. If there had been a pyramid in place then looking at the table above the likes of Dumbarton, Arbroath, Queen’s Park, Forfar, Clyde and ourselves could already have dropped off the football map years ago. Having said all that George and Lee will be looking each week simply at the gaps between the Mo and a play-off spot on the one hand and the Mo and the bottom club on the other hand. But beware, statistics don’t always lie! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruggie 68 Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 good post on the points table. there will be a lot of supporters now counting how many points they need to win to get to the point of safety average 9th place 33.1 points average 10th place 24.9 points also an average points tally of 56.5 points needed for the playoff positions. what does everyone think would be a comfortable points total and a realistic target that your club will reach Think personally Queen's will get to the 45 point mark this season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Old Northerner Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 ". If there had been a pyramid in place then looking at the table above the likes of Dumbarton, Arbroath, Queen’s Park, Forfar, Clyde and ourselves could already have dropped off the football map years ago. Having said all that George and Lee will be looking each week simply at the gaps between the Mo and a play-off spot on the one hand and the Mo and the bottom club on the other hand. But beware, statistics don’t always lie!" How loaded is the phrase "dropped off the football map" - "relegated" would be perfectly accurate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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