RandomGuy. Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 Very simple question. Do you accept that there is a negative financial consequence of our major teams being out the top flight? No. TV companies don't give a shit about Edinburgh/Dundee derbies, they only care about the Old Firm games, as proven by a lower deal when those two derbies were in the top flight compared to now when the Old Firm game is in it. Hibs and Uniteds travelling support has been pretty average aswell, and regardless, we just had our highest attendance against Accies in 25 years at the weekend, which maybe suggests our success is starting to grow our crowds, which, financially, is better for us than a home game against Hibs once a season. Please though, continue bleating about how we'll all be worse off without them, and how only teams pumped by MyPa47 and Malmo can stand a chance of winning games in Europe. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandarilla Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 No. TV companies don't give a shit about Edinburgh/Dundee derbies, they only care about the Old Firm games, as proven by a lower deal when those two derbies were in the top flight compared to now when the Old Firm game is in it. Hibs and Uniteds travelling support has been pretty average aswell, and regardless, we just had our highest attendance against Accies in 25 years at the weekend, which maybe suggests our success is starting to grow our crowds, which, financially, is better for us than a home game against Hibs once a season. Please though, continue bleating about how we'll all be worse off without them, and how only teams pumped by MyPa47 and Malmo can stand a chance of winning games in Europe. OK then you should just continue to misrepresent my posts. I think there is a natural consequence when arguing for a TV deal or sponsorship agreement. You gave one example but as you pointed out, rangers not being in the top flight totally changed that deal anyway (which actually makes my point).I don't think it's any way catastrophic but I think there's a minor impact when our biggest clubs are not in our top division. Yes it jazzes up the lower leagues a bit but on the whole I don't think it's beneficial. Does that mean I want a closed shop? Of course not. There should be more relegation/promotion. Anyone can see that. And you can still have new teams flourishing and new stories being created. It's not either or. But going back to the original point. Willie Miller was slating a dreadful game of football. I'm absolutely convinced he would say the same if he was watching hearts v Dundee. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugster Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 10 hours ago, 1320Lichtie said: for a neutral like myself 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salvo Montalbano Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 I don't get how having Hibs and United in the top flight would automatically make games more attractive either. If United came up and were utterly dreadful, how is a game where they are tanked by Aberdeen any more interesting than seeing Aberdeen at Ross County or Hamilton? Just because there might be a bigger crowd or had a rivalry some 30 odd years ago? If it's derby games that are important why no call for Dunfermline, Falkirk and Raith to get into the top league? There are derbies galore (or at least local ish rivalries) in the Championship just now. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheScarf Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 Folk, again, are missing the point re Willie Miller. He says every game of ours he covers is utter shite. He's regular as clockwork with it. His dislike for ICT colours his match reporting. He see's us, County and Hamilton as a hindrance to Scottish football and resents being posted to the Highlands to cover games. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1320Lichtie Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 Yeah, who needs new rivalries created, or smaller clubs given the chance to grow as clubs, when we all can hark back to the past as it's some form of testament to how the shape of things should look up here. What 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1320Lichtie Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 No. TV companies don't give a shit about Edinburgh/Dundee derbies, they only care about the Old Firm games, as proven by a lower deal when those two derbies were in the top flight compared to now when the Old Firm game is in it. Hibs and Uniteds travelling support has been pretty average aswell, and regardless, we just had our highest attendance against Accies in 25 years at the weekend, which maybe suggests our success is starting to grow our crowds, which, financially, is better for us than a home game against Hibs once a season. Please though, continue bleating about how we'll all be worse off without them, and how only teams pumped by MyPa47 and Malmo can stand a chance of winning games in Europe. Nobody is saying the clubs are all worse off without themJust that the leagues more entertaining for the neutral, like meAnd every single Edinburgh and Dundee Derby was on the TV 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat(The most tip top) Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 1 hour ago, RandomGuy. said: Hibs and Uniteds travelling support has been pretty average aswell, and regardless, we just had our highest attendance against Accies in 25 years at the weekend, which maybe suggests our success is starting to grow our crowds Maybe... Or possibly it's just a testament to the power of cheesy youtube promotional lipsync videos 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7-2 Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 2 hours ago, RandomGuy. said: which maybe suggests our success is starting to grow our crowds, It was due to a promotional campaign which wouldn't have been needed if our crowds were growing. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7-2 Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 2 hours ago, pandarilla said: I think there's a minor impact when our biggest clubs are not in our top division. I agree with this. A relatively minor financial impact in the greater scheme of things as it's crowds that are the greatest source of income in Scotland, as shown by Swello's recent article. We are never going to get game changing sums of tv/sponsorship money as the country's too small so the greater turnover of clubs the better as ambition should never be discouraged. Keeps things fresh too. It's the media's attitude that needs to change to benefit the game, not a couple of bigger clubs returning to their 'rightful place'. When it comes to derbies, I haven't watched a bigot fest for years, the Edinburgh one is usually dire and the Dundee one is by far the best. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandarilla Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 Folk, again, are missing the point re Willie Miller. He says every game of ours he covers is utter shite. He's regular as clockwork with it. His dislike for ICT colours his match reporting. He see's us, County and Hamilton as a hindrance to Scottish football and resents being posted to the Highlands to cover games. Was he right on Saturday though? You may well be right, I don't pay too much attention. But I heard his rant at the weekend and it seemed genuine. I simply don't believe he wouldn't have said the same if it was motherwell v killie. You also have to recognise that atmosphere affects your enjoyment of a game. It's not the main factor, obviously, but it is a factor. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dons_1988 Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 Scottish football needs a regular Aberdeen v Cove Rangers fixture to flourish. Fact. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingjoey Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 Willie Miller has said that the Caley match on Saturday was a borefest. Is anyone actually disagreeing with that? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiG Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 5 minutes ago, kingjoey said: Willie Miller has said that the Caley match on Saturday was a borefest. Is anyone actually disagreeing with that? No one is disputing that but the original comment was that Miller was slating Foran for some odd reason and getting really worked up about it as well. Nothing to do with the actual quality of the game itself. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1320Lichtie Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 No one is disputing that but the original comment was that Miller was slating Foran for some odd reason and getting really worked up about it as well. Nothing to do with the actual quality of the game itself. Wasn't just Miller. All of them were saying he had contradicted himself by saying it was a must win before hand and then said afterwards he was very happy with a point. Also fair. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiG Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 I'm sure he's not the first manager to contradict himself saying one thing then later saying something else. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1320Lichtie Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 I'm sure he's not the first manager to contradict himself saying one thing then later saying something else. He's also not the first manager to be criticised for it or to have it pointed out 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiG Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 If Willie Miller wants to get so worked up over something as trivial as this then he can fire away but it's pretty pathetic getting that wound up about it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheScarf Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 Just remembered, there's the Greg Tansey saga from this time last year. He was in floods of tears over that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTChris Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 Manager's saying one thing before the game and another after is as old as the hills and for Willie Miller to be so angry about it is a joke. As has been said before, he never has a single good thing to say about Caley, I think he gets pissed off at having to drive to Inverness to work. He was right about us being awful on Saturday though, can't say he was wrong there. Regarding Hibs and Dundee Utd, the point that rankles is that these clubs have been relegated because they deserved it. Hibs were awful for years before finally going down - I think they finished 9th or 10th for three or four seasons before they finally went down. They seem to be rebuilding now, which is good because I like them, but they utterly 100% deserve to be where they are. Dundee Utd fell apart a lot quicker than that but when they did they did it spectacularly, an absolute shambles from them. Saying that having teams in the top flight is part of some sort of natural order is pish. There are teams in the seaside leagues who used to be considered a big scalp for Caley and Ross County in teh Scottish Cup. St Mirren will likely be in those leagues next season and it isn't that long since they broke the Scottish transfer record. It's sport - things change. Stuart Cosgrove wrote an article in Nutmeg a few months back pointing out the bias against clubs like St Johnstone and ICT in favour of 'traditional' clubs. I think this is similar to that, people think that somehow there is a 'peak Scottish football', there's some configuration that we can set things to and the crowds will come back, we'll succeed in Europe and have a great national team. It's all bollocks of course. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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