Guest JTS98 Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 11 hours ago, Stu said: As an aside, I seem to remember Dodds saying outright on Sportsound he didn't have an EBT. A short while later, Mark Daly did the second of his Rangers' documentaries which had a list of everyone who had an EBT - including Dodds. They even played the clip of him denying it. When this was then brought up in the following days on Sportsound he came out with some bullshit excuse that it would be easier if he said he didn't have one. Good that the BBC still pays a wage to someone like that - and someone who declined to be interviewed for a BBC documentary along with the rest of the EBT recipients. What's this got to do with anything? Being employed by the BBC in one capacity does not mean that an individual must participate in all BBC ventures. And I think anyone should be free to refuse to discuss their own private financial affairs in public. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 12 hours ago, kennysmassiveego said: My limited understanding of how EBT’ s are beneficial to the recipient means that the recipient gets deferred payments sometime down the road from the trust . These “ payments “ make up the majority of the “wage “ so I refuse to believe anyone who benefited from these didn’t know about it . Agent to player “ I’ve got you £500k a year son “ Player “ that’s great , how much will I get a week in my pay packet ?” Agent “ £1000 “ Billy “ OK that sounds good to me “ I don't think that was remotely how it worked. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kennysmassiveego Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 31 minutes ago, craigkillie said: I don't think that was remotely how it worked. My point being imo every player knew exactly the benefits to them of EBT’s and just pretended not to know the ramifications when asked further down the line . As they came from another club who presumably were paying them legally they didn’t question or it wasn’t explained to them how this new system worked ? My sarcastic example highlights the disingenuous of those involved . 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Gaines Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 Didn't a couple of players say they were aware of the EBTs? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7-2 Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 There's a heck of a lot of hindsight going on with EBTs. I don't think they were illegal at the time and you're also dealing with an industry sector where the clubs and agents do so much for the players some can't even take out a phone contract or pay an electric bill after they finish. Asking them to understand tax systems is fantasy stuff. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dons_1988 Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 6 minutes ago, 7-2 said: There's a heck of a lot of hindsight going on with EBTs. I don't think they were illegal at the time and you're also dealing with an industry sector where the clubs and agents do so much for the players some can't even take out a phone contract or pay an electric bill after they finish. Asking them to understand tax systems is fantasy stuff. Asking adults to take responsibility for their own affairs should not be fantasy stuff. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7-2 Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 13 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said: Asking adults to take responsibility for their own affairs should not be fantasy stuff. What a utopian world you must live in. In the real world, some people are thick. Some people struggle with things others don't. A future for you as a Tory MP awaits. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dons_1988 Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 What a utopian world you must live in. In the real world, some people are thick. Some people struggle with things others don't. A future for you as a Tory MP awaits.Strange response.You think it’s ok for already privileged people to claim stupidity when they are avoiding tax? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7-2 Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 6 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said: Strange response. You think it’s ok for already privileged people to claim stupidity when they are avoiding tax? FFS. Ok, Labour MP then. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dons_1988 Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 2 minutes ago, 7-2 said: FFS. Ok, Labour MP then. I genuinely don't understand why footballers being a bit thick should exempt them from scrutiny. If you can't sort out a utility bill then you probably shouldn't be entering into a complex tax scheme. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 Lots of people on here probably have salary sacrifice schemes through their work - it's definitely offered to a lot of NHS and council workers. The employer will give the staff some basic information about how it works and ask if they want to sign up. Each individual is personally liable for that, but because it's through their work a lot of people will assume that the scheme is being handled correctly, which it usually is. However, I doubt that the vast majority of the people on these schemes would know exactly how they work or why they are legal. I'm not sure that EBTs were a great deal more complex than that. A number of employers across a variety of sectors were using them, and indeed some still do. It therefore stands to reason that players and/or their representatives would have had no real reason to suspect that the scheme being proposed by Rangers would end up being deemed illegal. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daptfc Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 "Welcome to Sportsound with me, David Currie. Joined this evening by Kris Commons, John 'Yogi' Hughes ... " F*cking hawd me back. What a shower of useless kents the BBC really are. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 Did Boumsong and his agent not question it all? An Ibrox office employee also questioned the apparently (relatively) low wage Papac was receiving, before being assured that his real wage came from the EBT. I kind of believe players when they say they left it to accountants. At the same time though, what Rangers were operating was pretty unorthodox and always sailing close to the wind. That's why accurate details of players' remuneration were withheld when contracts were lodged with the SFA for registration. I struggle to find sympathy for wealthy people who now come under pressure due to the fact that they hadn't paid what was properly owed in tax. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sugna Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 I think it quite likely that many of the recipients didn't know much about the mechanics of EBTs. However, I don't think that's relevant to a lot of the discussion, and it is certainly irrelevant to the thrust of Dodds's argument. The only thing that really matters is that the hybrid remuneration scheme allowed more money to be passed to the recipients, which in turn meant that the club could afford to "buy more playing talent" than they could have had through wages alone. That's it: that's what constitutes the advantage of using EBTs - and of course, that's no coincidence - it's precisely why they were used. I'm ambivalent about the tortuous route to establishing the illegal operation of the scheme meaning that there was necessarily anything more nefarious than standard tax avoidance tactics being employed. HMRC were very nearly defeated when taking this to court, so it seems unfair to pile in with hindsight and say it was all obviously illegal. The side-letters/dual-contracts thing, as I understand it, should have invalidated a lot of the campaigns during that era. That's different from the tax legality question, though. It seems strange to establish pretty severe and repeated breaches of very fundamental rules, yet not take the step of saying, "... so the titles and trophies won while cheating are forfeit". Maybe that's simply pragmatism, a means of heading off further consequences. Finally, when Dodds says that his EBT played no part in him signing, then goes on to say that he was paid money he was owed through an EBT, it's not immediately obvious whether he's being disingenuous or just a bit thick. Perhaps a little from column A, a little from column B. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-MAN Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 Seem to be a lot of people on here that have 2 contracts with their employer’s. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingjoey Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 Sorry to break the EBT chatter on this thread (please stop now), but Kris Commons on last night’s Sportsound “Ryan Christie has played very little football in the last two years.” 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheScarf Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 Kris Commons is a fat moron tbf. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel Sanchez Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 Gary Caldwell and Robbie Neilson are co-commentating on the Hearts/Hibs match. Robbie Neilson is the most boring man alive, and I am 95% certain Caldwell just referred to Arnaud Djoum as "Dee Jom". I can't have heard that. Please, someone correct me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melanius Mullarkey Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 6 minutes ago, Miguel Sanchez said: Gary Caldwell and Robbie Neilson are co-commentating on the Hearts/Hibs match. Robbie Neilson is the most boring man alive, and I am 95% certain Caldwell just referred to Arnaud Djoum as "Dee Jom". I can't have heard that. Please, someone correct me. I saw Robbie Nielsen in Matalan, Dundee last week so I concur. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archie McSquackle Posted November 1, 2018 Share Posted November 1, 2018 Ican'tremember who it was now but I'm sure I heard someone refer to a club in poor form being on Struggle Street. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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