Americans and their gun culture

[pandarilla]

- 67% of British residents surveyed believed that “As a result of gun and knife crime [rising], the area I live in is not as safe as it was five years ago. (YouGov)

- U.K. street robberies soared 28% in 2001. Violent crime was up 11%, murders up 4%, and rapes were up 14%.

- This trend continued in the U.K in 2004 with a 10% increase in street crime, 8% increase in muggings, and a 22% increase in robberies.

- In 1919, before they had any gun control, the U.K. had a homicide rate that was 8% of the U.S. rate. By 1986, and after enacting significant gun control, the rate was 9% practically unchanged.

- “… [There is] nothing in the statistics for England and Wales to suggest that either the stricter controls on handguns prior to 1997 or the ban imposed since have controlled access to such firearms by criminals.” - Colin Greenwood

- Comparing crime rates between America and Britain is fundamentally flawed. In America, a gun crime is recorded as a gun crime. In Britain, a crime is only recorded when there is a final disposition (a conviction). All unsolved gun crimes in Britain are not reported as gun crimes, grossly undercounting the amount of gun crime there. To make matters worse, British law enforcement has been exposed for falsifying criminal reports to create falsely lower crime figures, in part to preserve tourism.

- An ongoing parliamentary inquiry in Britain into the growing number of black market weapons has concluded that there are more than three million illegally held firearms in circulation – double the number believed to have been held 10 years ago – and that criminals are more willing than ever to use them. One in three criminals under the age of 25 possesses or has access to a firearm.

Oh my.

Seems Britain has a real issue with how it records crime statistics.

Hey, at least there's no guns right? Stats said they don't exist.

"Turns out I wasn't shot after all, guy wasn't found and convicted so it didn't happen"

Jesus, I feel quite bad for you all now.

Your lack of self awareness and ability to come across as a bell-end is particularly impressive chief.

[topcat(The most tip top)]

- "Between 1997 and 1999, there were 429 murders in London, the highest two-year figure for more than 10 years – nearly two-thirds of those involved firearms – in a country that has virtually banned private firearm ownership."

[/b]

At least we don't need to worry about gun crime here in the UK though.

Not as much as we did at the turn of the millennium

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-30577385

The number of homicides in London could fall below 100 in a year for the first time in more than 40 years, according to the Met Police.

There have been 93 homicides since January 2014, compared with more than 200 from January to December in 2001.

With a 2014 average of two a week it is "unlikely" there will be more than 100 by the end of the year, police said.

Officers said the reduction was down to intelligence-led policing and early medical intervention.

Targeting gangs

Det Ch Supt Mick Duthie, head of the Homicide Command, said: "It's taking guns off streets, it is intelligence-led policing to target gangs, stop and search.

"It is our professional response within the homicide command to make sure if offences do take place, we prosecute people.

"All these things together have helped us as an organisation reduce the incident of homicide."

Homicide rates include murder, manslaughter, corporate manslaughter and infanticide offences.

In 2001 the number of homicides was more than 200, while in 1970 it was 105, according to the Met's statistics.

There are no official figures for the 1960s, but the Met Police believe it was lower than 100.

[The_Kincardine]

- Comparing crime rates between America and Britain is fundamentally flawed. In America, a gun crime is recorded as a gun crime. In Britain, a crime is only recorded when there is a final disposition (a conviction).

Oh my.

You do realise that if, "a crime is only recorded when there is a conviction" then we should be proud that we are unique in the world in having a 100% efficient crime-solving service. Well done the polis.

OTOH you may have got this one wrong.

[oddly optomistic]

Seems Britain has a real issue with how it records crime statistics.

Hey, at least there's no guns right? Stats said they don't exist.

"Turns out I wasn't shot after all, guy wasn't found and convicted so it didn't happen"

Jesus, I feel quite bad for you all now.

I see you changed your post after posting obvious rubbish. Crime recording isn't perfect but it is audited by civilians. Generally if the word gun is mentioned the balloon goes up and everyone covers their ass.

Do you think domestic abuse cases would be safer with guns in the house?

[dufc1980]

I honestly can't tell if you're trolling me or being serious here, Kincardine, such is the level of the comments in support of the UK's draconian gun control laws in this thread.

Our 'homicide' rate is 0.9 per 100,000
Switzerland's homicide rate (by firearm only) is 3.84

It's like your source material is dreadfully skewed. I wonder if they have an agenda...

Right, no, not at all.

Switzerland's homicide rate is 0.6 as of 2011.

UK homicide rate is 1.0 as of 2011 (take into account REMEMBER, only counted in UK if someone is convicted of the murder, manslaughter also not included).

Either the figures I quoted were out of date or more modern, not sure where you're getting your figures from.


Edit: The second figures I posted come from the UNODC

[dufc1980]

I see you changed your post after posting obvious rubbish. Crime recording isn't perfect but it is audited by civilians. Generally if the word gun is mentioned the balloon goes up and everyone covers their ass. Do you think domestic abuse cases would be safer with guns in the house?

I did not delete anything, if I edited the post I only added to it.

The only post I deleted was one where I posted a graph I already had in error, I also corrected a small error in another post somewhere (oh yes, replaced manual cars with manually operated cars).

Now to edit (in order to answer your domestic abuse question):

I'll answer that with a question, do you think domestic abuse cases would be safer with a knife in the house?

Of course they wouldn't, it doesn't give you the right to enforce draconian gun laws. You don't get to punish the majority for the actions of the minority.

Well you do, obviously, but it's wrong.

[oddly optomistic]

I honestly can't tell if you're trolling me or being serious here, Kincardine, such is the level of the comments in support of the UK's draconian gun control laws in this thread.

Right, no, not at all.

Switzerland's homicide rate is 0.6 as of 2011.

UK homicide rate is 1.0 as of 2011 (take into account REMEMBER, only counted in UK if someone is convicted of the murder, manslaughter also not included).

Either the figures I quoted were out of date or more modern, not sure where you're getting your figures from.

Murder is recorded as a crime regardless of conviction. I think the conviction rate was well over 90% last I heard

[oddly optomistic]

I did not delete anything, if I edited the post I only added to it.

The only post I deleted was one where I posted a graph I already had in error, I also corrected a small error in another post somewhere (oh yes, replaced manual cars with manually operated cars).

What about the part where you said a crime was only recorded after conviction. Absolute rubbish, it recorded on most occasions on the day it's reported

[dufc1980]

Aye right. Again, numbers, but no sources..

See if you go to the website I'm quoting, they have little numbers in square brackets that cite the neutral source material they're pulling the figures from.

You're completely welcome to fact check them as thoroughly as you like, until you do however you cannot discredit them.

[welshbairn]

See if you go to the website I'm quoting, they have little numbers in square brackets that cite the neutral source material they're pulling the figures from.

You're completely welcome to fact check them as thoroughly as you like, until you do however you cannot discredit them.

So link it.

[welshbairn]

By the way, is this recent influx of gun enthusiasts all from America, apart from wee L4L/ Young Stalin of course, or have you all been sitting frustrated in Motherwell or wherever just itching to go out on the mean streets with a gun? Genuine question.

[Ira Gaines]

welshbairn, on 05 Feb 2015 - 23:01, said:

By the way, is this recent influx of gun enthusiasts all from America, apart from wee L4L/ Young Stalin of course, or have you all been sitting frustrated in Motherwell or wherever just itching to go out on the mean streets with a gun? Genuine question.

This one is Supras.

[oddly optomistic]

I did not delete anything, if I edited the post I only added to it.

The only post I deleted was one where I posted a graph I already had in error, I also corrected a small error in another post somewhere (oh yes, replaced manual cars with manually operated cars).

Now to edit (in order to answer your domestic abuse question):

I'll answer that with a question, do you think domestic abuse cases would be safer with a knife in the house?

Of course they wouldn't, it doesn't give you the right to enforce draconian gun laws. You don't get to punish the majority for the actions of the minority.

Well you do, obviously, but it's wrong.

So you won't answer the question. No point discussing with you. And I think you'll find knives are kitchen utensils and form a purpose. Guns are for harming or killing people.

[dufc1980]

What about the part where you said a crime was only recorded after conviction. Absolute rubbish, it recorded on most occasions on the day it's reported

No, it's not. As I said, go to the site, read the citation and fact check the source material.

I seriously doubt the conviction rate for murders in the UK is 90%, do you have a source for this?

[dufc1980]

So link it.

http://www.gunfacts.info/gun-control-myths/guns-in-other-countries/#note-99-22

Here you go, have fun.

[Zetterlund]

So you are suggesting we should all be living in constant fear as Britain is in fact a society of unreported gun crime? Interesting.

I was shot in the face on the local High St the other day. I didn't report it though - I wouldn't want the cafes to lose any business.

[dufc1980]

So you won't answer the question. No point discussing with you. And I think you'll find knives are kitchen utensils and form a purpose. Guns are for harming or killing people.

I did answer the question.

Would you like me to explain my answer for you? I will anyway:

In a heated domestic debate there are a number of weapons within a house that a person COULD use to kill the source of their anger. Not only is this possible it HAS happened on numerous occasions. It does not justify banning the object used.

Guns have non-violent purposes too, I think you'll find.

[dufc1980]

I was shot in the face on the local High St the other day. I didn't report it though - I wouldn't want the cafes to lose any business.

It's not you who wouldn't be reporting it, it's the people responsible for providing crime statistics in the UK.

Until someone is convicted for shooting you in the face, it did not happen.

[The_Kincardine]

I honestly can't tell if you're trolling me or being serious here, Kincardine, such is the level of the comments in support of the UK's draconian gun control laws in this thread.

I didn't say anything for or against our gun control laws. I merely picked up on what you said here:

Comparing crime rates between America and Britain is fundamentally flawed. In America, a gun crime is recorded as a gun crime. In Britain, a crime is only recorded when there is a final disposition (a conviction).

Self-evidently this is not true.

[dufc1980]

I didn't say anything for or against our gun control laws. I merely picked up on what you said here:

Self-evidently this is not true.

Self-evidently you would be wrong.

The people responsible for crime statistics in the UK do not record a crime unless it has resulted in a conviction, skewing their figures.