The Arbroath Thread

[ExiledLichtie]

Just now, Ludo*1 said:

Are you trying to compare Jim McIntyre's reign at Dundee with Dick Campbell's at Arbroath?

That's not weird, that's just fucking mental.

Ah, but, to paraphrase a particularly furious Dundee fan, you weren't there man, you don't understand.  How can you understand when it didnt happen to you?

[Ludo*1]

Just now, ExiledLichtie said:

Ah, but, to paraphrase a particularly furious Dundee fan, you weren't there man, you don't understand.  How can you understand when it didnt happen to you?

You're fucking weird. 

Enjoy McIntyre's clusterfuck and enjoy him slowly making your good quality players like McKenna not want to be at Arbroath anymore. I mean, Boruc ahead of Gaston? Great for team spirit that.

Anyways, I'll leave it there if you've got to the point of comparing Campbell at Arbroath with McIntyre at Dundee. 

[ExiledLichtie]

7 minutes ago, Ludo*1 said:

 

Anyways, I'll leave it there...

Chance would be a fine thing.  

[Anotherlichtie]

Whenever I see “exiledlichtie” has posted I know it’s going to be inane nonsense. Actually makes me miss the other resident clown Clashy

[1320Lichtie]

40 minutes ago, 1320Lichtie said:

To be fair - you have got to give anyone a chance and judge them off how they do at your own club - players and managers always have their own good or bad reputations at former clubs but it varies and is usually a mixed bag - very rarely there is going to be a manager out of work who absolutely everyone has nice things to say about, if that was the case they wouldn’t be available 

 

Also just until the other day I was giving the case for keeping McIntyre - what he has had to deal with is absolutely brutal 

 

The one thing and the main thing for me that’s changed my mind is Mikey McKenna - I back him over McIntyre any day he’s a passionate guy who is clearly not having him - if he feels that way then that’s going to be the overall consensus in that changing room I’ve no doubt and that cannot be the case. We cannot risk losing important figures in that dressing room for the sake of keeping a guy on who’s on the ropes and has no substantial argument for continuing in the post we need to do everything we can to TRY and stop that from happening because it’s obviously not a given

And if it wasn’t McKenna who pushed me into the ‘McIntyre out’ camp then it probably would’ve been this thread today - not having to put up with Dundee fans popping in every 2 minutes telling us how much they hate him will be very refreshing 

[D'Jaffo]

1 hour ago, virginton said:

Do I really have to point out the utter desperation of the 'logic' behind that claim? I don't think you believe that for one second though. 

You're speculating without any actual evidence to date of these release clauses being present and being used to empty similar managers though. 

You can highlight McIntyre's fallen stock but the same argument applies far more to the team he agreed to take over. It's not in any way a defence of McIntyre's performance or his overall ability in management* to say that the job he took on was always likely to result in relegation at the end of this season. So why would he agree to take over a team that wasn't his own halfway through and also agree a break clause on that basis? It's obvious horseshit. 

 

 

 

* The dictionary definition of mediocrity 

I never claimed to have any evidence and have acknowledged it’s pure speculation. It is however absolute nonsense that a football club cannot afford to part ways with a manager. I was simply using that as a theory as to how they could get rid of McIntyre.

I don’t see how it’s an absurd suggestion that he’d take over Arbroath with a similar clause in his contract. He’ll still be collecting a decent-ish wage and if he had managed to keep them up then he’d get a bit of credit in the bank and he’s still manager of a Championship team.

It may well all be horseshit but it’s a more sensible theory than gormless fans going about claiming a club cannot afford to sack a member of staff. 

[ecto]

2 minutes ago, D'Jaffo said:

I never claimed to have any evidence and have acknowledged it’s pure speculation. It is however absolute nonsense that a football club cannot afford to part ways with a manager. I was simply using that as a theory as to how they could get rid of McIntyre.

I don’t see how it’s an absurd suggestion that he’d take over Arbroath with a similar clause in his contract. He’ll still be collecting a decent-ish wage and if he had managed to keep them up then he’d get a bit of credit in the bank and he’s still manager of a Championship team.

It may well all be horseshit but it’s a more sensible theory than gormless fans going about claiming a club cannot afford to sack a member of staff. 

We can dispense of McIntyre, by paying him 2 months salary, apparently 

[lichtiekev]

48 minutes ago, ecto said:

We can dispense of McIntyre, by paying him 2 months salary, 

 

Could maybe sell something in the shop to pay for this, is it not about time for a new beach towel? 

Edited April 3 by lichtiekev

[lichtie23]

Il donate towards Always Arbroath if it helps 

[AFC360PUNK1320]

A couple of other things from last nights game :-

Why was Gaston dropped as i thought he done decent against Dunfermline even although we lost 3 goals, was he injured?

As has been stated McKenna is the delegated penalty taker and McIntosh scored the last penalty as McKenna was injured at the time so when the argument was going on last night on who was taken it McKenna looked over to the bench only to see McIntyre (with his hands in his pooches) unable to make a decision, even his after match interview about the incident he was struggling to give a 100% answer to it apart from saying "McIntosh scored the last pen" making it obvious there was no clear cut plan on who would take the next penalty prior to last nights the game.

Why did he take off McKenna at 0-0 when he was playing well plus was a threat for us in the air, it looks to me McKenna is getting treated the same was as Bobby was from DC.

 

I do not like coming on here having a pop at our Manager or players but if the AFC Board are reading this and looking for feedback from the fans then i am voting to get McIntyre out now and not wait until the end of the season and even put Goldie in until the end of the season so it gives us 4/5 weeks to work out or next appointment.

If we need to raise money to compensate McIntyre re-introduce the big white blanket that got carried around Gayfield in the 1960's/70's and the fans threw their shrapnel into it for funds.

I will back my Club/Manager/Players to the hilt but sometimes things do not work out or are not a good fit and unfortunately that is the felling i am getting with McIntyre and our Club.

 

 

[A Diamond For Me]

Boruc nearly let Airdrie in right at the very start, but I don't think you could blame him for either of goals Airdrie scored (the first on in particular was poor defending that left Fordyce totally free for the header) and as in the game a couple of weeks ago he had some good saves.   That's three goals we've scored against Abroath from corners in the last two games - on of which was certainly Boruc's fault, when he flapped at the cross for our fifth in the previous game.

[Its not only a game]

4 hours ago, ExiledLichtie said:

We've had some pretty terrible managers down the years, but no, I don't hold any residual bitterness towards our ex managers.  I'm even weirdly pleased to see the Campbells doing well at East Fife.  I wish all our ex managers well, even the awful ones.

Totally correct.

What the Campbells did  for Arbroath from the near bottom of league 2 to the near promotion to Premiership was unbelievable !- Fact. 
Watching the Friday night games I had huge respect and truthfully,  a large part of Envy that Arbroath can do that , why not EF?

Campbell brothers are now working their magic at EF- honestly bearing  in mind the past few years of total agony, loneliness , and hopelessness, its total , total magic.
Should they do for us - 1/2 of what they did for you we are singing from the Methil  rafters!

 

Wish Arbroath well- can’t wait to be a moaning EF fan after many years in Chapionship complaining about being relegated - bring it on…

 

Be careful what you wish for ……

 

Do they have a limit ? No idea 

[Blawin a Hoolie]

It’s dreadful, we need some leadership from somewhere and would hope the Board have the nouse to read the room and do something, maybe even communicate with the fans in a way that says “we’ve got this”.

Preparation for L1 should already be underway so we can as far as possible hit the deck running my fear is the opposite happens and it gets worse…

For me give the job to Goldie now (if he wants it that is) and a’body would at least rally round and perhaps lift the mood for a few games.

I guess it all had to come to an end it’s just a bit heartbreaking that it’s a shambles rather than a brave effort.

’Mon the Lichties

 

[Tattie36]

1 hour ago, Its not only a game said:

Totally correct.

What the Campbells did  for Arbroath from the near bottom of league 2 to the near promotion to Premiership was unbelievable !- Fact. 
Watching the Friday night games I had huge respect and truthfully,  a large part of Envy that Arbroath can do that , why not EF?

Campbell brothers are now working their magic at EF- honestly bearing  in mind the past few years of total agony, loneliness , and hopelessness, its total , total magic.
Should they do for us - 1/2 of what they did for you we are singing from the Methil  rafters!

 

Wish Arbroath well- can’t wait to be a moaning EF fan after many years in Chapionship complaining about being relegated - bring it on…

 

Be careful what you wish for ……

 

Do they have a limit ? No idea 

I remember when Campbell came to us and started turning things around immediately. There were one or two Forfar fans who came on and warned us that it would eventually turn sour as it seemed to at every club he’d been at - some of our fans laughed it off, probably including me.

Don't get me wrong when it was good it was very very good but the last 18 months of his tenure was grim on and off the pitch. It was like something changed in him/them after that fateful night in Kilmarnock.

Best of luck to EF though, he will definitely bring success - not sure for how long or to what extent but be prepared for the inevitable fall from grace. It’ll be a blast though while it lasts though and certainly won’t be dull.

Edited April 3 by Tattie36

[ExiledLichtie]

In fairness, I'm struggling to think of a manager anywhere in global football who it hasnt eventually turned sour for.  Maybe Guardiola? 

[1320Lichtie]

4 minutes ago, Tattie36 said:

I remember when Campbell came to us and started turning things around immediately. There were one or two Forfar fans who came on and warned us that it would eventually turn sour as it seemed to at every club he’d been at - some of our fans laughed it off, probably including me.

Don't get me wrong when it was good it was very very good but the last 18 months of his tenure was grim on and off the pitch. It was like something changed in him/them after that fateful night in Kilmarnock.

Best of luck to EF though, he will definitely bring success - not sure for how long or to what extent but be prepared for the inevitable fall from grace. It’ll be a blast though while it lasts though and certainly won’t be dull.

I think it was when things started to go wrong (there were several warning signs that a poor season was inbound at the start of last year) Dick felt he was above criticism and couldn’t believe that anyone had the audacity to express their displeasure at the man who nearly took us to the Premiership.
 

Dick had a ridiculous amount of credit in the bank though and fans knew that and continued to back him for a very long and poor period where numerous questionable decisions were made it wasn’t instantly like that. 
 

But when that happened he got extremely stubborn and like I said earlier in hindsight, as someone who backed him near enough to the very end, did act and come across like a bit of a fud / walloper and massive haver for an extended period of time. 
 

His best days are behind him the man he was when he left the club was a very different man to the one who come in, aged a lot of years literally but a whole lot more figuratively,  but he obviously has brought a feel good factor to EF in the short term and it’s a standard honeymoon spell for him. If that trajectory continues next season they’ll have a good few years to enjoy but if it stalls or goes back the way it’ll end up like it did here. 
 

The guys an absolute hero and done wonders for us but gonna take a few years for that to really sink in and to appreciate it I think after the way it all ended here. 
 

Reading back this thread. Talking to mates. Reading other forms of online media. The overwhelming consensus is a fresh start so I wonder how we address that as a club and what happens now. The writing is on the wall 

[Tattie36]

7 minutes ago, 1320Lichtie said:

I think it was when things started to go wrong (there were several warning signs that a poor season was inbound at the start of last year) Dick felt he was above criticism and couldn’t believe that anyone had the audacity to express their displeasure at the man who nearly took us to the Premiership.
 

Dick had a ridiculous amount of credit in the bank though and fans knew that and continued to back him for a very long and poor period where numerous questionable decisions were made it wasn’t instantly like that. 
 

But when that happened he got extremely stubborn and like I said earlier in hindsight, as someone who backed him near enough to the very end, did act and come across like a bit of a fud / walloper and massive haver for an extended period of time. 
 

His best days are behind him the man he was when he left the club was a very different man to the one who come in, aged a lot of years literally but a whole lot more figuratively,  but he obviously has brought a feel good factor to EF in the short term and it’s a standard honeymoon spell for him. If that trajectory continues next season they’ll have a good few years to enjoy but if it stalls or goes back the way it’ll end up like it did here. 
 

The guys an absolute hero and done wonders for us but gonna take a few years for that to really sink in and to appreciate it I think after the way it all ended here. 
 

Reading back this thread. Talking to mates. Reading other forms of online media. The overwhelming consensus is a fresh start so I wonder how we address that as a club and what happens now. The writing is on the wall 

Agree with the Campbell stuff. I just wish he’d jacked it in after 21/22 saying he’d taken us as far as possible. He would have left as an absolute legend with freedom of the town, a statue, and free pints and bjs for life. Of course his planet sized ego would never have seen him quit at the top, he needed more adulation, more worship, more power.

What he achieved will never be forgotten but his legacy and reputation has, sadly been massively tainted.

As far as the current situation goes - the board aren’t daft and they must see how things are collapsing. Last nights crowd was the lowest, non Covid league attendance we’ve had in years and that included 700-800 season ticket no shows. They will be budgeting for next season and the thought of losing all of that revenue and all the associated income must be terrifying.

People are asking “can we afford to get rid of McIntyre?” when the real question is “can we afford not to get rid of McIntyre?”

[RedLichtie86]

Last night was our last chance to stay in this division. But we failed to get the win we needed. As much as many want us to be competitive every week and winning games, the fact of the matter is the squad that is available is no longer cut out for this division.

McIntyre came in under difficult circumtances. A team out of form, lacking quality everywhere and team cohesion and consistency fucked. He faced 5 games in 4 weeks before the transfer window opened to improve things. He got us playing well with what we had with The initial bounce teams can get with a new manager.

Rather that going into the transfer window with a somewhat settled squad, having had time to evaluate the players and seek out new ones he was faced with an injury crisis no one at the club has ever seen. The main aim was to get players in to put a team together and fast. How many players did we have that were fully fit? How many playing with injuries that could get worse? We had 14 "fit" players left when we faced Dundee United on the 2nd January after Murray came in. Then 15 "fit" players when Walker came in against Partick on the 6th.

We were in a dire situation with sometimes only 8 or so players training during the week. Doubts on players fitness lasting a full 90 minutes and scared to death of more injuries. Fans on here were begging for more players. We needed players in and it couldnt wait. It McIntyre had waited until after the Ayr game on the 13th to bring players in fans would lose their shit. Facebook, twitter, on here, all were pleading for more players. That ment taking risks on players such as Murray, Walker, Robinson, MacKinnon etc. McIntyre was not afforded the luxury of time to identify the right players that the club needed. Even if he did, trying to fix 2 years of failed transfer windows was a long shot at best.

The squad is still largely the one he came into. One that has suffered from getting older, dropped in form, injuries and an overall a lack of quality to play in this division.

Last night in the first half we did look threating down the right but nothing down the left. Walker made 4 or 5 intercepts to stop certain chances with others defending desperately. MacKinnon and Gold did a great job in the middle tracking back. The penalty situation was farcical. If McKenna believed he was the taker he should have refused to let McIntosh take it. Little should have been a captain and decided. Whether McIntyre had expressed it clearly to all that McIntosh was to be the taker last night is unclear. But regardless on the pitch the captain should be making that decision. That situation made the miss far more damaging to our morale.

We go into the 2nd half flat. Team demoralised and the performance dropped. 0-0 and fans wanting 2 up top and to have a go. McIntrye changed the formation with the subs, MacKinnon and McKenna off for Slater and Bird, Dow dropping behind the 2 up top and sacrificing the left wing with Gold now expected to push out to if needed as more attacking focus went down the right. It was a gamble that didnt work. We lost a goal at the corner so JMc turns to the bench.....

We needed to win and on the bench what else was left to turn the game around..... Stowe, Turan, Jacobs, Murray, Robinson. Players that are not good enough at this level. Yes 2 were JMc players but as stated earlier they were signed under pure desperation not thorough planning. Chucks on Stowe and Robinson for Dow and McIntosh as fresh legs might make a difference but alas no chance. Players not good enough and it showed.

Its very easy to blame McIntyre for all our failures. But fans surely have to accept that the squad we have is not good enough for the Championship. That is something that was evident last season and it carried over to this season.

I get that McIntyre has had some horrid results. But trying to get the best out of these players to be consistently good like the team 2 years ago was never going to happen. He seemed to steady the ship when he came in but the amount of injuries, the bad run of results, dropping late points (2 v Dunfermline - Bird/Hylton fight, 1 v Raith - 97th min goal, 2 v Ayr -Stowe not getting a pen) and overall lack of quality in the squad has been our downfall.

Bringing in a new manager for the summer just papers over the cracks. They will still face the same issues McIntyre will face if he is still in charge. They could do better, they could do worse. Again its another risk to take.

The summer gives everyone a chance to look forward to a new season. One where we will not be seen as the relegation candidate but one that will be competitive. If we manage to get Gaston, Stewart and McKenna signed for next season alongside the other 7 players plus fresh faces in we will be back at Gayfield enjoying watching us win again.

And who knows. McIntyre might do well having a squad he has built upon, regropued and trained without the pressure of facing stronger sides each week........ or he could be out in a few months and Bobby Linn rocks up.

TLDR...... I understand.

[glasgowlichtie23]

1 hour ago, RedLichtie86 said:

Last night was our last chance to stay in this division. But we failed to get the win we needed. As much as many want us to be competitive every week and winning games, the fact of the matter is the squad that is available is no longer cut out for this division.

McIntyre came in under difficult circumtances. A team out of form, lacking quality everywhere and team cohesion and consistency fucked. He faced 5 games in 4 weeks before the transfer window opened to improve things. He got us playing well with what we had with The initial bounce teams can get with a new manager.

Rather that going into the transfer window with a somewhat settled squad, having had time to evaluate the players and seek out new ones he was faced with an injury crisis no one at the club has ever seen. The main aim was to get players in to put a team together and fast. How many players did we have that were fully fit? How many playing with injuries that could get worse? We had 14 "fit" players left when we faced Dundee United on the 2nd January after Murray came in. Then 15 "fit" players when Walker came in against Partick on the 6th.

We were in a dire situation with sometimes only 8 or so players training during the week. Doubts on players fitness lasting a full 90 minutes and scared to death of more injuries. Fans on here were begging for more players. We needed players in and it couldnt wait. It McIntyre had waited until after the Ayr game on the 13th to bring players in fans would lose their shit. Facebook, twitter, on here, all were pleading for more players. That ment taking risks on players such as Murray, Walker, Robinson, MacKinnon etc. McIntyre was not afforded the luxury of time to identify the right players that the club needed. Even if he did, trying to fix 2 years of failed transfer windows was a long shot at best.

The squad is still largely the one he came into. One that has suffered from getting older, dropped in form, injuries and an overall a lack of quality to play in this division.

Last night in the first half we did look threating down the right but nothing down the left. Walker made 4 or 5 intercepts to stop certain chances with others defending desperately. MacKinnon and Gold did a great job in the middle tracking back. The penalty situation was farcical. If McKenna believed he was the taker he should have refused to let McIntosh take it. Little should have been a captain and decided. Whether McIntyre had expressed it clearly to all that McIntosh was to be the taker last night is unclear. But regardless on the pitch the captain should be making that decision. That situation made the miss far more damaging to our morale.

We go into the 2nd half flat. Team demoralised and the performance dropped. 0-0 and fans wanting 2 up top and to have a go. McIntrye changed the formation with the subs, MacKinnon and McKenna off for Slater and Bird, Dow dropping behind the 2 up top and sacrificing the left wing with Gold now expected to push out to if needed as more attacking focus went down the right. It was a gamble that didnt work. We lost a goal at the corner so JMc turns to the bench.....

We needed to win and on the bench what else was left to turn the game around..... Stowe, Turan, Jacobs, Murray, Robinson. Players that are not good enough at this level. Yes 2 were JMc players but as stated earlier they were signed under pure desperation not thorough planning. Chucks on Stowe and Robinson for Dow and McIntosh as fresh legs might make a difference but alas no chance. Players not good enough and it showed.

Its very easy to blame McIntyre for all our failures. But fans surely have to accept that the squad we have is not good enough for the Championship. That is something that was evident last season and it carried over to this season.

I get that McIntyre has had some horrid results. But trying to get the best out of these players to be consistently good like the team 2 years ago was never going to happen. He seemed to steady the ship when he came in but the amount of injuries, the bad run of results, dropping late points (2 v Dunfermline - Bird/Hylton fight, 1 v Raith - 97th min goal, 2 v Ayr -Stowe not getting a pen) and overall lack of quality in the squad has been our downfall.

Bringing in a new manager for the summer just papers over the cracks. They will still face the same issues McIntyre will face if he is still in charge. They could do better, they could do worse. Again its another risk to take.

The summer gives everyone a chance to look forward to a new season. One where we will not be seen as the relegation candidate but one that will be competitive. If we manage to get Gaston, Stewart and McKenna signed for next season alongside the other 7 players plus fresh faces in we will be back at Gayfield enjoying watching us win again.

And who knows. McIntyre might do well having a squad he has built upon, regropued and trained without the pressure of facing stronger sides each week........ or he could be out in a few months and Bobby Linn rocks up.

TLDR...... I understand.

How much was in the brown envelope from McIntyre? 

[ExiledLichtie]

1 hour ago, RedLichtie86 said:

....

No.