The Arbroath Thread

[ewan_fife]

Has he left?

[1320Lichtie]

Has he left?

No, and hopefully he doesn't either.

[WHM]

Very hard for Joao to get a game upfront for Arbroath,as we only play with one striker,and Todd plays Ryan or Grehan.Our other strikers Greg Rutherford and Kane Hester hardly played all season aswell because of one upfront.

Edited November 14, 2015 by WHM

[keptie]

It's looking like Speckyboy is right about Lumsden,getting pumped by 10 men is fu****g embarrassing,his results since being in charge aint good enough,scrambling about at the bottom half of the bottom tier of Scottish football is not where Arbroath f.c should be imo.I wouldn't mind so much but watching Arbroath is as exciting as watching paint dry apart from the occasional half of good football now and then,and no i'm not expecting Barcelona type football,if Arbroath were winning playing the way we play the fans will put up with it,but not when when we just win now and then,his time is running out if fingers aren't pulled out.

[1320Lichtie]

League table is utterly depressing. Never seen us finish lower than 4th in this league since I've been going...

[afc_36_0]

My patience with lumsden is running out, he's had a decent budget to pick his own squad and we have not been good enough.

I stood by him after the terrible start and was hopeful when we went on a half decent run but after 1 point from the last 3 and being 1-0 up today to loose 3-1 against 10 men for the last half hour is unacceptable.

Despite being only 5 points off 2nd the fact is we're the 2nd worst team in scotland. I think more than a 3rd of the season has been enough time and with annan away next it could be the final nail in the coffin.

[SimonLichtie]

I think the vast majority of the fans are in agreement regarding the management.

A manager has to always be given time to get things together, and calling for him to go in August/ September as some were will always be ridiculous, but a third of the way into the season is enough time to judge things and ultimately we are 9th out of 10 teams in a division where we have one of, if not the, biggest budget.

Sadly I think today is the straw that broke the camels back. I believe we have some very good individual players for this division, which they have proved in the past, and although there are some holes in the team we should be doing better than we have done so far.

[speckyboy]

I think the vast majority of the fans are in agreement regarding the management.

A manager has to always be given time to get things together, and calling for him to go in August/ September as some were will always be ridiculous, but a third of the way into the season is enough time to judge things and ultimately we are 9th out of 10 teams in a division where we have one of, if not the, biggest budget.

Sadly I think today is the straw that broke the camels back. I believe we have some very good individual players for this division, which they have proved in the past, and although there are some holes in the team we should be doing better than we have done so far.

Bit late in seeing the light, anyone who has management skills can see when another does not.

pity about the result but good to see young Hester getting on.Pity about taking far too long to see the team needed changed, late subbies as usual

[Lichtielegend]

Bit late in seeing the light, anyone who has management skills can see when another does not.

Ok Jose.

Getting near impossible to defend Lumsden now.

We started the season with 2 horrendous performances but the following 2 we showed improvement even if we never got the results. Then we started getting results with a run of 5 wins from 6. It's really how we perform having built that platform that Lumsden should be rated and it's not looking like it'll be a success. We've played 1 good half in the last 3 games and the performance in the other 5 halves have been pretty dreadful.

I think there are a couple of key areas where we're weak;

Strikers - We have Grehan, Rutherford, Victoria and Hester. Grehan has been ok without being prolific (Ryan was better but again didn't score enough) but it shows the confidence Lumsden has in the rest when he'll play Linn up top before any of the others. I think Hester is a bit too raw, so can see why he gets only cameos. Victoria just seems a bizarre one. Scores in trial game then has barely appeared other than the Forfarshire cup (where he played well). If Lumsden did go, I wouldn't be surprised to see Joao play more.

Squad depth - One or two injuries and we're struggling, regardless of position. Not looking forward to next week with Little and potentially Johnstone missing.

[1320Lichtie]

Ok Jose.

Getting near impossible to defend Lumsden now.

We started the season with 2 horrendous performances but the following 2 we showed improvement even if we never got the results. Then we started getting results with a run of 5 wins from 6. It's really how we perform having built that platform that Lumsden should be rated and it's not looking like it'll be a success. We've played 1 good half in the last 3 games and the performance in the other 5 halves have been pretty dreadful.

I think there are a couple of key areas where we're weak;

Strikers - We have Grehan, Rutherford, Victoria and Hester. Grehan has been ok without being prolific (Ryan was better but again didn't score enough) but it shows the confidence Lumsden has in the rest when he'll play Linn up top before any of the others. I think Hester is a bit too raw, so can see why he gets only cameos. Victoria just seems a bizarre one. Scores in trial game then has barely appeared other than the Forfarshire cup (where he played well). If Lumsden did go, I wouldn't be surprised to see Joao play more.

Squad depth - One or two injuries and we're struggling, regardless of position. Not looking forward to next week with Little and potentially Johnstone missing.

Pretty well put. I think we've got a lot of good players in this squad, but most of them midfielders. If Lowden was fit I wouldn't be too worried about Johnstone missing a game or 2 but he's not, again with Little out the only alternative is Clark? Unless you play Whatley RB and Watson CB?

At this moment in time I'm thinking the same as yourself, it's getting more difficult to defend Lumsden (who seems like a decent hardworking guy) by the week. If we do part ways, and it's looking ever more likely, I would want to see Keith Gibson in. Great guy, local and club favourite, he has done extremely well with Broughty and my mate who barely kicked a ball under him told me he was still absolutely fantastic. Training etc was great, good fun and not one person had a bad word to say about him.

I'd also want Ryan (or another pacey striker, maybe Jaoa..?) up beside Grehan. A 4-4-2 with a fit Darren Ramsay and Bobby Linn on each wing, Whatley and Stewart central. Watson RB, Little and Munro CH, Stoney LB.

Got really good options from the bench, we know how good Sergio can be, Gold can make an impact, Lowden/Reid are great options on the left and right if Linn/Ramsey are struggling, Rutherford can put a shift in up front, Clarke and Wilson there to come in if we're struggling at the back. I'd personally like to see Whatley as second choice RB seeing as we have so many midfield options and Wilson fills me with zero confidence but it won't come down to that too often.

Ultimately, 9th is just not good enough, we are lucky the leagues so poor this season and we haven't been cut a drift at the bottom. We have 14 points from 13 games, 1 point more than the Shire and you saw how bad they were!! That's more than a third of the season gone now, I have a feeling that next weeks long journey to Annan will end the same way Moores long journey to Elgin finished, would love to be proved wrong though but after watching that performance yesterday I can't see us doing anything.

I also just want to mention how important Flemings been for us, he's pulled us out the shite so many times this season when you think of it going right back to that first tanking we had off Dunfermline...! If it wasn't for him we'd be totally fucked right now.

[SimonLichtie]

Bit late in seeing the light, anyone who has management skills can see when another does not.

pity about the result but good to see young Hester getting on.Pity about taking far too long to see the team needed changed, late subbies as usual

It's extremely impressive that you are able to judge a football manager after two games of a season

It's obvious that, yet again, you weren't actually in attendance yesterday. If you had been, you would know that the team didn't need changed, and one of the big factors in our loss was the fact that it was changed. We should never have changed formation, we should never have moved Bobby Linn from his role upfront and we should never have changed both full back positions when we only needed to change one (ideally dropping Whatley to left back and leaving Watson where he was).

All of the above is obvious to anyone with 'management skills' :lol:

Just to clarify - you are not right. You have never been right. Getting on a managers back two games into a season is embarrassing, and as such (in case you hadn't noticed) most of us are simply embarrassed by your comments. Personally I'm still fairly convinced you're not actually even an Arbroath fan. While the vast majority of us have been fairly supportive of the management up until recently and given him the chance that any manager deserves, you have been sitting about spouting negative shite week in week out, gloating and smug every time we lose. It is possible to have a different opinion to others without being a c**t about it....

[SimonLichtie]

I would also add that there is far more to management than what fans see on a Saturday afternoon. I can only assume speckyboy knows all about Todd's training, tactics, man management, the resources at his disposable, his contacts within the game and his reputation amongst other players at our level.

[speckyboy]

Todd's training, tactics, man management, the resources at his disposable, his contacts within the game and his reputation amongst other players at our level.

So thats the reason we are near the bottom of our table

[speckyboy]

It's extremely impressive that you are able to judge a football manager after two games of a season

It's obvious that, yet again, you weren't actually in attendance yesterday. If you had been, you would know that the team didn't need changed, and one of the big factors in our loss was the fact that it was changed. We should never have changed formation, we should never have moved Bobby Linn from his role upfront and we should never have changed both full back positions when we only needed to change one (ideally dropping Whatley to left back and leaving Watson where he was).

All of the above is obvious to anyone with 'management skills' :lol:

Just to clarify - you are not right. You have never been right. Getting on a managers back two games into a season is embarrassing, and as such (in case you hadn't noticed) most of us are simply embarrassed by your comments. Personally I'm still fairly convinced you're not actually even an Arbroath fan. While the vast majority of us have been fairly supportive of the management up until recently and given him the chance that any manager deserves, you have been sitting about spouting negative shite week in week out, gloating and smug every time we lose. It is possible to have a different opinion to others without being a c**t about it....

come the end of the season we will see who is right

[1320Lichtie]

come the end of the season we will see who is right

You have completely missed the point being made.

[BB_Bino]

Squad depth - One or two injuries and we're struggling, regardless of position. Not looking forward to next week with Little and potentially Johnstone missing.

Not having a pop here, you guys know your club better than me but is this quote not the same with every side? We had a lot of injuries, suspensions at the start of the season (along with players off form) and struggled. It's probably no coincidence that now we have all but Beattie & Johnston back (although McMillian now has a long term injury) results are improving.

[1320Lichtie]

I like how the clubs Twitter just decided to stop talking about the Stirling game at half time.

Sums everything up.

[Lichtielegend]

Not having a pop here, you guys know your club better than me but is this quote not the same with every side? We had a lot of injuries, suspensions at the start of the season (along with players off form) and struggled. It's probably no coincidence that now we have all but Beattie & Johnston back (although McMillian now has a long term injury) results are improving.

I think, compared to other teams and Arbroath sides of previous seasons, there is a significantly more substantial drop in level when we go beyond our starting 11. Except for our striking options and that is because all of our striking options are a bit weak.

In addition to this, the best players we have for covering injuries to certain positions are already playing in other positions (Watson at Right-back would be our best cover for centre-back, Whatley at Centre-mid would be best cover for Full-backs, Linn is arguably the best striker on our books)

[1320Lichtie]

I believe it is time to twist. Though the draw was a good result we still dont look like a team that is capable of a play off place.

Time for some a fresh face in charge. Probably a number of decent managers or older players looking to get into management would be interested in the job. Barry Robson perhaps?

Stewart Petrie also comes to mind.

Lumsden just doesnt look like he can make things work.

I'm sort of feeling the same way, think a lot of people have made their mind up as well. There's no chance we are making the play offs the way things are going. The league table is utterly depressing reading and although we have played really well in spells at points I have no confidence in things changing any time soon. The results have been terrible.

In 2015, under Moore:

W: 1

D: 5

L: 10

Under Lumsden:

W: 6

D: 6

L: 10

6 wins from 22 games for Lumsden. 7 wins from 38 overall in 2015 for Moore and Lumsden combined. Pish poor.

Have we had a worse calendar year?

Even the season we got pumped rotten in the 1st (championship now) would've been balanced out by half decent results in the previous/following seasons.

Robson has barely played so might be keen now and Gibby along the road at Broughty are my preferences.

[timlichtie]

What the statistics don't show is the level of commitment and performance in recent games. There appears to be a very good spirit in the squad and an increasing level of resilience. To mess with the management now, when we look capable of climbing away from the trapdoor would be a very high risk strategy. How long would one of these big name players stick with us if we were struggling? Would any want to take on the rescue job? I really doubt it.

We need to concentrate on bolstering the management and squad if we are to make progress.