All things Dundee FC

[Ludo*1]

And now Killie have just went 1 up against Hearts.

[Granny Danger]

20 minutes ago, Ludo*1 said:

 

Moussa - Worse than Yordi, genuinely one of the worst strikers I've seen at Dens in a considerable number of years and McCann had the gall to say he'd be a cult hero. A very, very poor man's Haber.

 

Were there not quite a few Dees on here just a few weeks back claiming this guy was brilliant?

[Louis Litt]

10 minutes ago, Ludo*1 said:

And now Killie have just went 1 up against Hearts.

It's alright though that's not the sort of game which will define their season.

[Ludo*1]

5 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

Were there not quite a few Dees on here just a few weeks back claiming this guy was brilliant?

I gave him the benefit of the doubt, but I don't think there were many ever saying he was brilliant. There was a couple saying he was better than Haber admittedly, which is just hilarious, but I think that's more because Haber splits the support rather than Moussa being seen as a quality player.

[Shadow Play]

33 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

Were there not quite a few Dees on here just a few weeks back claiming this guy was brilliant?

Nowhere near as many as there were a United fans claiming Blair Spittal and Ryan Dow were the next big talents at United (who would be sold for a massive profit) 

[Spikethedee]

1 hour ago, Ludo*1 said:

And now Killie have just went 1 up against Hearts.

2-1 to the Ayrshire tinks now...

[RossDee01]

It's alright though that's not the sort of game which will define their season.

If a win against Hearts means you won't be relegated then happy days. What's all the panicking for?

[DeeTillEhDeh]

Not sure what people were expecting this season to be honest. This time last year we had dross like Danny Williams, Yordi Teijsse, James Vincent, Rory Loy, David Mitchell, Nick Ross and plenty others all tied up on long term deals thanks to Paul Hartley. This season we've brought in considerable improvements in Hendry, Meekings, Kamara, Deacon and even Wolters who is streets ahead of some of the shite we bad last year.

 

People expecting us to be half way up the league at this point are utterly deluded. The football we are playing compared to last year is night and day. That game against Hamilton last week (very unlike us this season) was a typical performance of last year. We would have also lost that game about 4-0 yesterday after losing such an early goal, but the players showed a bit of fight and got us back in the game and on top for the rest of the first half.

 

A world class save and a horrendous refereeing decision were the difference between us leaving there with 3 points and leaving with nothing.

 

I'm praying McCann gets the time he need because I'm convinced he'll get it right. Finishing 10th this season would be a good building block for next season where we will have the likes of Kamara still on the books and Hartley's dross gone for good.

 

McCann isn't to blame for the shambles, it's totally down to the failings of Hartley and there's no other manager out there who would do a better job with the squad we have than McCann.

Unfortunately all the pretty football in the world means sweet f**k all when you get zero points.

 

I'd rather have ugly football and grind out points than this.

 

[ravabelli]

4 minutes ago, RossDee01 said:

If a win against Hearts means you won't be relegated then happy days. What's all the panicking for?

We're consistently losing football matches and looking certs for relegation week upon week, that's all

[DeeTillEhDeh]

It's alright though that's not the sort of game which will define their season.

Killie's next one against us might just though.

[RossDee01]

I like you as a poster RossDee, but I have to go through these posts and pull up the things I disagree with as there's a lot that I simply can't agree with as I think it's nonsense.
 
Let's go through McCann's signings:
 
Parish - Played 1 game, but we've not seen much, too early to judge. - N/A
Hendry - Very talented player, can go to the top. - Pass
Meekings - Quality player, but perhaps a waste of a budget as we'd already strengthened heavily at CH by the time Meekings signed. Since he's played, I don't think he's looked exactly great. - Fail (Because we could have used the money elsewhere considering the breakthrough of Waddell)
Spanish Jon - Looking like a more bizarre signing as every week goes by. Fail
Kamara - Looks to be an absolute find - Pass.
Spence - Started off well, but tailed off significantly thereafter. Isn't making a huge difference to our midfield and hasn't claimed the jersey for me. Not as good as Nick Ross IMO. - Fail.
Deacon - Blows hot and cold, scored 1 goal all season. I'll put him down as a pass as he can still come good. - Pass.
Wolters - Plenty of effort, but not as talented as Danny Williams and that's saying something. - Fail
Moussa - Worse than Yordi, genuinely one of the worst strikers I've seen at Dens in a considerable number of years and McCann had the gall to say he'd be a cult hero. A very, very poor man's Haber.
AJLS - Scores goals without looking very good. Not the fastest, wouldn't want him signed on past this season, but looks like we may need to convince him too as he's the only one that's consistently putting the ball in the net but more than likely we will lose him in January. - Pass
Allan - Rumours of McCann falling out with him are added to the list alongside Bain and Haber. He's not been very good for us and has missed a large chunk through injury. He can turn it around, but it's a fail so far. - Fail.
So out of McCann's 11 signings, he's signed 3 players that have made a genuine difference to the team thus far whilst wasting a huge amount of his budget on the likes of Moussa and Spanish Jon. We are playing better football granted, but we are not getting the results and McCann has admitted that he's tore into teams as a pundit for similar.
Hartley used to get bombarded with the insult that he was 'too stubborn' but so far McCann is ripping the piss out of that statement. Hartley, however weak his signings were last season, played to the team's strengths in an attempt to grind out results, he quickly realised that playing fancy football wasn't putting points on the board. The pressure Hartley was under this time last season was immense whereas McCann is getting a free ride. McCann's stubborness is going to see us go down and if he doesn't get us the win against Kilmarnock, there will be absolutely no argument in keeping him on.
 

Fair enough, we're all entitled to an opinion and I see the points you're making but don't necessarily agree with them. Of course we can't just blame Hartley for failings this season since he's gone, however the mess he left us with definitely plays a part in us struggling this season. That being said (and I know we're bottom of the league) I don't think we're as bad as a lot of people seem to be making out.

This is one of our lineups from last season under Hartley (just a random one i found on Twitter)


Compare that to yesterday's team and to me the difference is huge. With the league being the most difficult it's been since we came up there's absolutely no way in my mind that team would survive.

This season was all about rebuilding and although McCann has made a huge amount of signings (some good, some bad) it's still not his team. I feel for McCann and hope he starts to get the results soon to take some of the pressure off, but it is a results based game and a really fickle one at that.

Regardless of the result against Killie I can't see him being sacked and think he will be given at least until Christmas. Could we even afford to sack him if it came down to it? It was a gamble plumping for an inexperienced manager but I'm of the opinion he deserved the chance after saving us last season.

I also like the style of football McCann is getting us to play, and as far as I'm aware we haven't conceded any goals from playing out from the back so don't know why so many people have a bee in their bonnet about that.

[RossDee01]

Unfortunately all the pretty football in the world means sweet f**k all when you get zero points.
 
I'd rather have ugly football and grind out points than this.
 

Unfortunately miracles don't happen over night. If you think adopting a different style of football will make all the difference over night then you couldn't be more wrong.

Look at Man City under Guardiola last season compared to this season. It took them a full season to adapt to his style of football and look at them now. There were a lot of people saying he was a one trick pony and too predictable last season and that he was only successfully because of the team he had at Barca and Bayern.

And before anyone starts, I'm not comparing Man City to Dundee, it was just an example of how these things take time and can often be worth having a bit of patience.

[RossDee01]

We're consistently losing football matches and looking certs for relegation week upon week, that's all

Can't argue with your first point, that is indeed a fact.

 

Disagree with your second point, though.

[Ira Gaines]

There's a big difference between yourselves and Man City. A poorish season for Guardiola at City meant a decent league position. For you, it could mean relegation.

[Alert Mongoose]

Out of interest is RossDee the updated incarnation of DerryDode?

[RossDee01]

Out of interest is RossDee the updated incarnation of DerryDode?

[Alert Mongoose]

I'll take that as affirmative. What a boy.

[AnAnInginAneAnA]

6 minutes ago, Randy Giles said:

There's a big difference between yourselves and Man City. A poorish season for Guardiola at City meant a decent league position. For you, it could mean relegation.

While getting relegated would undoubtedly be fucking shite, Nelms has pretty much said that the new stadium development will go ahead regardless of which division we're in (which has led me to believe that we were bought purely as a means to build a profitable new retail, housing, and sports/leisure centre rather than an end in and of itself.). So as long as the club could balance the books by holding on to the couple thousand loyal support it did during the bad years and keeps ticking over, I don't think relegation carries the same risk to the existence of the club as it used to for us.

 

That being said I really fucking hope we can Killie our way out of this mess.

[RossDee01]

There's a big difference between yourselves and Man City. A poorish season for Guardiola at City meant a decent league position. For you, it could mean relegation.

I understand that, but imo it's worth the risk. I'd much rather go to games and watch my team at least attempt to play good football than watch them constantly shitfest their way to the odd win and constant mediocre league finishes.

The football we're playing just now is a lot better than it was under Hartley, and I don't think anyone on here will disagree with that. The problem is we're not getting the results to match. And that's a big problem and understandably that's where a lot of people are focussing. Like I've said numerous times, I still think he'll get it right and when he does, we'll be a much better football team than we would have been if he'd decided to play route 1, clogger football. I also understand that sometimes it's necessary to shitfest your way to get a decent result and I think that's probably where we've had our downfalls this season. The Partick Thistle game was a perfect example of this. With 20 minutes to go and even when the equalised to a certain extent we should have just shut up shop and tried to get at least a point out of the game. Instead we committed too many bodies forward trying to get a winner and got hit on the break.

We were going absolutely nowhere under Hartley, and people will say the same about McCann but I see it differently.

[RossDee01]

I'll take that as affirmative. What a boy.

You must be lost. This is the premiership section of the forum you're in.