All things Dundee FC

[RawB93]

Can't see why you wouldn't want to see McPake again? He done a good job for us when fit and also gave us some memorable moments!

I agree, I actually hold him in high regard. He has given us a lot and I’m happy to have him around the club in other roles, I just feel his time as a player is probably done. He was prone to rash challenges/decisions much like O’Dea is now - and he’s fast becoming a liability. Don’t think we need another player like that in defence, that’s all.

[Mon Dieu]

Hibs fans had the same thoughts regarding McPake...

Without McPake, we would have got relegated in 2011-12.

Without McPake, we got relegated in 2013-14.

Without McPake, we couldn't get out of the Championship.

Learn from our mistake fellow HiDees.

 

Thank You

Thank You

Thank You

Thank You.

 

Edited November 8, 2017 by Mon Dieu

[RossDee01]

Same for you ludo , I can't quite suss out whether your anti or pro McCann , firstly what do you think is the main reason for the teams struggles, secondly how can in your opinion this struggle for consistency be reversed ?

It's a strange one, and I think that's why there's such a divide in opinion between the fans regarding McCann. Although many of the results are obviously not acceptable, the majority of performances have been a vast improvement on last season. A combination of some bad luck (and i realised every team could say that) and wasting so many clear cut chances has resulted in these good performances not getting the results they deserve.

My belief is that we will start to get the results which the performances deserve and that's why McCann should get more time in my opinion. Others don't see it like that, as they're only interested in the results - which I can understand because that's what it comes down to at the end of the day - but I think at this time in the season you need to be rational and look at the bigger picture.

If we're still bottom at Christmas, I may well change my mind.

[Granny Danger]

1 minute ago, RossDee01 said:

It's a strange one, and I think that's why there's such a divide in opinion between the fans regarding McCann. Although many of the results are obviously not acceptable, the majority of performances have been a vast improvement on last season. A combination of some bad luck (and i realised every team could say that) and wasting so many clear cut chances has resulted in these good performances not getting the results they deserve.

My belief is that we will start to get the results which the performances deserve and that's why McCann should get more time in my opinion. Others don't see it like that, as they're only interested in the results - which I can understand because that's what it comes down to at the end of the day - but I think at this time in the season you need to be rational and look at the bigger picture.

If we're still bottom at Christmas, I may well change my mind.

What I'm about to say is genuine.  

I had a discussion with my son and a customer in work today where we were talking about United the season we went down.  We actually played some decent football in a number of games after we sacked McNamarra and came away thinking "how the hell did we not take something that?"

My point is that the quality of the football will not necessarily translate into points.  That's not an argument to bin McCann but rather a warning that there is no guarantee that things will come good.

 

[happyaccie]

14 minutes ago, RossDee01 said:

It's a strange one, and I think that's why there's such a divide in opinion between the fans regarding McCann. Although many of the results are obviously not acceptable, the majority of performances have been a vast improvement on last season. A combination of some bad luck (and i realised every team could say that) and wasting so many clear cut chances has resulted in these good performances not getting the results they deserve.

My belief is that we will start to get the results which the performances deserve and that's why McCann should get more time in my opinion. Others don't see it like that, as they're only interested in the results - which I can understand because that's what it comes down to at the end of the day - but I think at this time in the season you need to be rational and look at the bigger picture.

If we're still bottom at Christmas, I may well change my mind.

Do you think if McCann insists on continuing the implementation of his football philosophy , the results will be forthcoming? Everyone likes to see their teams play neat intricate football , unfortunately it's not really achievable in Scotland due to a number of factors

1- Scottish Premiership clubs with perhaps the exception of Celtic do not have the players with the technical ability to implement this style of football.

2- Even if clubs ( I am only using Dundee as the example just now because that's who is being discussed ) had players with the technical ability to play this style , opposition sides in Scotland rarely permit the time for this to be successful .

3-And I guess this is the biggest stumbling block , football fans in Scotland would have to be convinced this style of football would be for the greater good of the game, many old timers I speak to on the subject hanker for the days of highly physical and competitive football rather than in their words the namby pamby football currently on view .

4-And this is a factor which has a personal feel for me , in the depths of a Scottish winter many of the playing surfaces that matches are played on , simply are not compatible with this style.

[Fifespud]

Who is our best partnership in defence right now ?
Right now I couldn't tell you. I don't think McCann has either as he has changed the team every week.
You also didn't answer my question before about who do you believe will finish 11th and 12th ?

Any 2 out of 7 could finish 11th or 12th. Somebody has to. With Rangers, Hearts and Hibs all up that’s 3 teams with bigger budgets so it obviously should be a tougher league than any we’ve encountered since promotion.

United hunted rat boy, still got relegated and made bigger c***s of themselves in the process.

I think our best defence is Kerr, Meekings, Hendry and Holt and I think we will see that combo more often over the next 10 weeks.

Who out of all the centre halves Hartley signed would you have in the centre of our defence?

Steve Clarke and Coyle appear to have given their teams a lift, but it’s early days, we got a lift when McCann was appointed too.

No time for keeching the bed.

[K.T]

What I'm about to say is genuine.  
I had a discussion with my son and a customer in work today where we were talking about United the season we went down.  We actually played some decent football in a number of games after we sacked McNamarra and came away thinking "how the hell did we not take something that?"
My point is that the quality of the football will not necessarily translate into points.  That's not an argument to bin McCann but rather a warning that there is no guarantee that things will come good.
 

[capt_oats]

34 minutes ago, G_Man1985 said:

The back 4 I don't disagree with what you have said .
Maybe Mcpake I'd give a chance to as our defence combination has leaked a goal in every game. However stability would be nice.
So bottom 2 who will finish there ? You genuinely believe we won't be in bottom 2?
I wouldn't say I'm keeching the bed but we are shit right now.

No doubt about it we shouldn't lose to Kilmarnock at home .

Fwiw, in the past 5 seasons there have been 5 teams sat on 8 points or less after 13 games. 4 of them were automatically relegated. Last season was a bit of a quirk on account of the bottom 6 being as tight. Where usually there's a double digit points gap (or close to it) between 12th and 6th last season there were only 3 points covering 6th - 12th after 13 games.

16/17 - 12th Ross County - 11 pts / 6th ICT - 14 pts (3pt gap) - relegated
15/16 - 12th Dundee United - 8pts - (relegated)
14/15 - 12th Ross County - 8pts / 11th St Mirren - 8 pts (relegated)
13/14 - 12th Hearts -4 (relegated)
12/13 - 12th Dundee 8 pts (relegated)

Edited November 9, 2017 by capt_oats

[RandomGuy.]

Fwiw, in the past 5 seasons there have been 5 teams sat on 8 points or less after 13 games. 4 of them were automatically relegated. Last season was a bit of a quirk on account of the bottom 6 being as tight. Where usually there's a double digit points gap (or close to it) between 12th and 6th last season there were only 3 points covering 6th - 12th after 13 games.
16/17 - 12th Ross County - 11 pts / 6th ICT - 14 pts (3pt gap) - relegated
15/16 - 12th Dundee United - 8pts - (relegated)
14/15 - 12th Ross County - 8pts / 11th St Mirren - 8 pts (relegated)
13/14 - 12th Hearts -4 (relegated)
12/13 - 12th Dundee 8 pts (relegated)

Aye, but how many of those teams played it out from the back..

[RossDee01]

What I'm about to say is genuine.  
I had a discussion with my son and a customer in work today where we were talking about United the season we went down.  We actually played some decent football in a number of games after we sacked McNamarra and came away thinking "how the hell did we not take something that?"
My point is that the quality of the football will not necessarily translate into points.  That's not an argument to bin McCann but rather a warning that there is no guarantee that things will come good.
 

I know there's no guarantee but I think he deserves the time until at least Christmas to put points on the board. Far too early for knicker wetting and punting the manager.

[K.T]

If I knew who the next manager was going to be, it would be easier to make a decision on McCann.

[Dee Bliss]

6 minutes ago, K.T said:

If I knew who the next manager was going to be, it would be easier to make a decision on McCann.

Mixu

[Dee Bliss]

14 hours ago, G_Man1985 said:

 

Who is our best partnership in defence right now ?
Right now I couldn't tell you. I don't think McCann has either as he has changed the team every week.
You also didn't answer my question before about who do you believe will finish 11th and 12th ?

 

Meekings and Hendry

 

Hamilton and Partick. 

[Ludo*1]

If I knew who the next manager was going to be, it would be easier to make a decision on McCann.

As critical as I've been of McCann, if I were to know that Yogi for example, would be our next manager, I'd be giving McCann a fresh new 3 year deal AFTER we've been relegated.

Some of the options are scary right now.

[Bigmouth Strikes Again]

Got a wave from McCann at lunchtime there, top bloke. IMO.

[harry94]

15 hours ago, RawB93 said:

 

I agree, I actually hold him in high regard. He has given us a lot and I’m happy to have him around the club in other roles, I just feel his time as a player is probably done. He was prone to rash challenges/decisions much like O’Dea is now - and he’s fast becoming a liability. Don’t think we need another player like that in defence, that’s all.

 

I think, in the last few months we saw of McPake, he was maybe carrying a knock or two. In Hartley's team, we were ridiculously light in terms of protection for the defence and I generally think his bad moments were generally overamplified as it generally come when the midfield shat it and we'd get totally destroyed with him and Konrad (who I don't think was that bad either) getting pulled out of position.

I'd take a fully fit McPake over a fully fit O'Dea any day. For me, O'Dea is based on pure aggression mostly and doesn't really show any sort of composure that you'd expect from experienced defenders. McPake settles the players around him IMO and knew when to slow a game down or to speed it up. His last minute run in the box from defence against Aberdeen in the Scottish Cup which allowed him to knock a ball down to Clarkson was brilliant to watch.

The likelihood is that we won't ever see McPake back up to the same sort of level but if it was a 2014/15 McPake, I'd be delighted to have him back. Hell, if our defence have come good by the time he's back, I'd send Moussa to work on a farm (to keep rodents away) somewhere and take McPake as a striker option in his first natural position.

[K.T]

Mixu

Only a shambles of a club would make such an appointment.

[happyaccie]

3 hours ago, Bigmouth Strikes Again said:

Got a wave from McCann at lunchtime there, top bloke. IMO.

Biggie that's a unique take on getting the Vicky lol .

[Granny Danger]

I was driving past Dens about 2.45 and saw John Hughes walking out the main door with a playful smile on his face.

I’m not reading too much into this.

[Dee Bliss]

4 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

I was driving past Dens about 2.45 and saw John Hughes walking out the main door with a playful smile on his face.

I’m not reading too much into this.

He’s getting our under 16s job. You boys wanted him as manager, says it all really.