gav-ffc Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 To Hartley's credit, his squad turnover every pre-season did lead to some exciting summers. When he was at Dundee did he have a head of recruitment based abroad/down south? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludo*1 Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 Just now, tree house tam said: Pity about the rest of the year though. Last season only. I largely enjoyed Hartley's era even if some may disagree. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludo*1 Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 4 minutes ago, gav-ffc said: When he was at Dundee did he have a head of recruitment based abroad/down south? No, he was stubborn as hell and insisted on doing all scouting himself. He didn't really have a life whilst at Dens. He'd be down South himself a couple of times a week just to watch a lower league U20s game etc. Hardest worker we've ever had as a manager but that's what ended up costing him his job as his recruitment lacked in the final season. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bairnardo Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 No, he was stubborn as hell and insisted on doing all scouting himself. He didn't really have a life whilst at Dens. He'd be down South himself a couple of times a week just to watch a lower league U20s game etc. Hardest worker we've ever had as a manager but that's what ended up costing him his job as his recruitment lacked in the final season. Seems like he has maybe learned from that and offloaded that work to an English based scout. Good to hear, specially.if that was causing his performance to suffer. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gav-ffc Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 11 minutes ago, Bairnardo said: 14 minutes ago, Ludo*1 said: No, he was stubborn as hell and insisted on doing all scouting himself. He didn't really have a life whilst at Dens. He'd be down South himself a couple of times a week just to watch a lower league U20s game etc. Hardest worker we've ever had as a manager but that's what ended up costing him his job as his recruitment lacked in the final season. Seems like he has maybe learned from that and offloaded that work to an English based scout. Good to hear, specially.if that was causing his performance to suffer. This. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crawford Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 5 minutes ago, G_Man1985 said: 100% this. 1 bad season for Hartley cost him his job :-(. I'll openly admit I was one of the boo boys that called for him to go and In hindsight I deeply regret it. Hartley simply raised the standards to the point when the bad recruitment happened at the time it was seen as wholly unacceptable. He really was a victim of his own success. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludo*1 Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 (edited) 20 minutes ago, G_Man1985 said: 100% this. 1 bad season for Hartley cost him his job :-(. That's football though. I was one of Hartley's biggest fans but getting beat 0-7 at home by Aberdeen in your 4th season as manager is sackworthy in itself, nevermind him admitting in a post match interview that he didn't know how to turn it around. That said, I still think he's got the potential to be a top, top manager. Edited June 20, 2018 by Ludo*1 Correcting the Aberdeen score. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dee-funked Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 (edited) 10 minutes ago, G_Man1985 said: 100% this. 1 bad season for Hartley cost him his job :-(. His knowledge of players at every level of the game was unreal. At the sponsors do a few years ago, Gary Harkins told me Hartley was always first in to Dens every morning and last to leave at night, incredible number of hours he devoted to the club. His downfall in my opinion was his stubbornness bordering on arrogance. Very rarely held his hands up and admitted HE got it wrong, more often than not it was the players' fault. This led to him sticking with set-ups and strategies that clearly weren't working, until the point that they worked, which is why we had so many horrendous runs of defeats on the bounce. He always struck me as someone who would persist with a run of defeats if it meant his game-plan working just once, so that he can say "see, it worked." Edited June 20, 2018 by Dee-funked 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dee-funked Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 1 minute ago, Ludo*1 said: That's football though. I was one of Hartley's biggest fans but getting beat 1-7 at home by Aberdeen in your 4th season as manager is sackworthy in itself, nevermind him admitting in a post match interview that he didn't know how to turn it around. That said, I still think he's got the potential to be a top, top manager. I'm still of that opinion but he will only reach that potential if he loses the stubbornness and develops a humbler side whereby he holds his hands up when he gets it wrong, rather than always blaming the players. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harry94 Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 35 minutes ago, Dee-funked said: His knowledge of players at every level of the game was unreal. At the sponsors do a few years ago, Gary Harkins told me Hartley was always first in to Dens every morning and last to leave at night, incredible number of hours he devoted to the club. His downfall in my opinion was his stubbornness bordering on arrogance. Very rarely held his hands up and admitted HE got it wrong, more often than not it was the players' fault. This led to him sticking with set-ups and strategies that clearly weren't working, until the point that they worked, which is why we had so many horrendous runs of defeats on the bounce. He always struck me as someone who would persist with a run of defeats if it meant his game-plan working just once, so that he can say "see, it worked." It generally is part and parcel of being a football manager. It's often thrown at quite a few managers but a big part of doing that sort of job is having some conviction in your ideas. It's important to correct your errors but not so eays in hindsight. I think some players Hartley signed that didn't work out certainly did have the ability to be really good but didn't work out and needed a lot of persistence to give them the best shot of seeing it (and although Greg Stewart was a fairly quick contributor, I think someone like him wouldn't have been given as much responsibility so fast as his overall contribution was initially quite questionable). In his credit, after he arsed up the summer, I think his abandoning and brutal change in technique when signing Haber to just a horrific long ball game to midfield did really save us and mitigate the damage. He needed to go for his part in signing up so many players really long-term (the board played a part in this too) and damaging his relationship with the club and fans so badly at the time and definitely did need to go but hopeful for him that he's picked up a good job and I do think he could be a reasonable manager at this level. Having such a good work ethic and a bit of steel behind you is a major asset and a great foundation to have, he wants things his way and that's great. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D TOTAL Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 Who was Hartley assistant coach ?I can’t for the life of me remember 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elbows Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 I've 'lurked' around a couple of Dundee forums for a while now and have decided to take the plunge with P&B. All Dundee discussions are in one place and although no prisoners are taken, (mostly) everyone wants the best for the Dark Blues. I hope I can take the bruises. After a lifetime supporting Dundee my expectations are tempered, so my hopes for the pre-season are: 1) We get rid of the deadwood asap, and don't let anymore back in, and 2) We find a striker with a bit of composure in front of goals. It's desperate watching so-called professionals blasting wildly away. No need for 'worldies', just score the ones he should. Anyway that's me in and here's to a good season. 16 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fifespud Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 We just need to get the same planning consultant that got the Steading through planning. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugster Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 2 minutes ago, D TOTAL said: Who was Hartley assistant coach ? I can’t for the life of me remember Was it not Gerry McCabe? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D TOTAL Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 Was it not Gerry McCabe? THANK f**k FOR THAT That’s bugged me all bloody day 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D TOTAL Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 I've 'lurked' around a couple of Dundee forums for a while now and have decided to take the plunge with P&B. All Dundee discussions are in one place and although no prisoners are taken, (mostly) everyone wants the best for the Dark Blues. I hope I can take the bruises. After a lifetime supporting Dundee my expectations are tempered, so my hopes for the pre-season are: 1) We get rid of the deadwood asap, and don't let anymore back in, and 2) We find a striker with a bit of composure in front of goals. It's desperate watching so-called professionals blasting wildly away. No need for 'worldies', just score the ones he should. Anyway that's me in and here's to a good season. Your cv looks good , got any references ? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DigOutYourSoul Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 I've 'lurked' around a couple of Dundee forums for a while now and have decided to take the plunge with P&B. All Dundee discussions are in one place and although no prisoners are taken, (mostly) everyone wants the best for the Dark Blues. I hope I can take the bruises. After a lifetime supporting Dundee my expectations are tempered, so my hopes for the pre-season are: 1) We get rid of the deadwood asap, and don't let anymore back in, and 2) We find a striker with a bit of composure in front of goals. It's desperate watching so-called professionals blasting wildly away. No need for 'worldies', just score the ones he should. Anyway that's me in and here's to a good season. Welcome.What are your thoughts on Sofien Moussa? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fifespud Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 Was it not Gerry McCabe? Who I believe is/was his father in law? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugster Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 Just now, Fifespud said: Who I believe is/was his father in law? Not sure, but I was surprised he didn't bring him with him to Falkirk 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elbows Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 2 hours ago, DigOutYourSoul said: Welcome. What are your thoughts on Sofien Moussa? Great first question, thanks! No doubt the answer will re-start one of the forum's favourite rammies. I had high hopes for him. I liked him for jumping on the wall and nearly falling on his **** at Raith, for his side-foot goal at Cowdenbeath. Stopped defending him after Tynecastle where his display was abject, only outdone that night by Scott Allen being a pop star by taking every free-kick/corner badly. Delighted that he scored a couple towards the end of the season. I'm for him overall although there's plenty evidence to the contrary. My view is probably based on how we've slipped over the decades and our need to be patient and encourage the players. As for the rest - Wolters is one of worst ever to wear dark blue, El Bak has no idea and is a liability, and I thought Holt was a good honest player albeit prone to a mistake which was always rammed down this throat. Well I hope I've made some friends as well as enemies. 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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