All things Dundee FC

[RossDee01]

If we didn't get beat from Motherwell...
If we didn't concede late on against Hamilton.

All these things happened.

McGowan and odea coming on was awful.

A glorious opportunity... blown.... again

Slightly different comparing 1 penalty to full games. I’m not an “if, buts and maybes” kind of person either, but Miller really should be scoring from the spot which would have given us the win as Killie would have had no time to respond. Therefore I don’t think McIntyre’s tactics were as bad as being made out, and had Miller just put his boot through the ball nobody would be saying anything about it.

[Dee Bliss]

2 minutes ago, G_Man1985 said:

He brought on Miller , what did he do bar miss a penalty?
He brought on a midfielder , McGowan.. what did he do ?
He brought on a defender and put him in midfielder, again what did odea do ?
We cleared off the line twice and defended for our life. He didn't change the tactics to go win that game. He settled for the point as we had zero happening.
We nearly had lady luck on our side but overall I thought his substitutions didn't do a thing in the grand schemes of thing.

We got a point so better than nothing but that was a very poor second half.

The worrying think is that in the  3 games since the split he’s went and made subbies and tactical changes around the 75th minute  that have just brought teams on to us and we’ve hung on despite being ridiculously deep. 

Did Kusunga punch the corner against us in the last few minutes, he definitely attempted too. 

[johnnydun]

To take off our only "out" option player at the time in Nelson and replace him with O'Dea in the centre of midfield is a terrible change. He should of swapped Curran for O'Dea and played 5 at the back, or simply dropped Curran back a bit IMO. But to replace our best goal scoring chance with a player out of position is poor.

I like the players he has brought in but when it comes to changing tactics I am not confident in him.

[Dee Bliss]

Just now, johnnydun said:

To take off our only "out" option player at the time in Nelson and replace him with O'Dea in the centre of midfield is a terrible change. He should of swapped Curran for O'Dea and played 5 at the back, or simply dropped Curran back a bit IMO. But to replace our best goal scoring chance with a player out of position is poor.

I like the players he has brought in but when it comes to changing tactics I am not confident in him.

That’s how I see it as well. I’m going to lay my neck on the line and say Madianga is a better midfielder than O’Dea. Maybe should’ve kept 1 extra body for centre midfield if he doesn’t trust the youngster enough to throw him on. 

[RossDee01]

So if Dundee scored with that penalty, (yes we get 3 points) you would of been pleased with how we played in the second half and accepted the substitutions he made were spot on .
That was sheer luck that 94th minute penalty dive and if it wasnt for the defending and clearances off the line we would of got beat. That's facts.

However we settle for a point. So we are 1 more point ahead of st.mirren , we can enjoy our weekend knowing fitness levels wont be an issue for our next game

No, we were a shambles once Killie got the second equaliser, but that was before the subs were made. Nelson was burst and could barely move when he was taken off. We needed an extra defender because of how deep we were getting pinned back so that’s why O’Dea came on. Curran was injured so that’s why he came off. The only chance that I wasn’t happy with was the McGowan one.

[RossBFaeDundee]

I'm always sad when there's an extended period of time between games. However, I can't wait for this one now. Just so tired of all of it.

[Boo Khaki]

4 minutes ago, G_Man1985 said:

He brought on Miller , what did he do bar miss a penalty?
He brought on a midfielder , McGowan.. what did he do ?
He brought on a defender and put him in midfielder, again what did odea do ?
We cleared off the line twice and defended for our life. He didn't change the tactics to go win that game. He settled for the point as we had zero happening.
We nearly had lady luck on our side but overall I thought his substitutions didn't do a thing in the grand schemes of thing.

We got a point so better than nothing but that was a very poor second half.

I'm not disagreeing with any of that, but you're talking as if he left a load of better options on the bench, or he got the formation and tactics totally wrong. 

There have been loads of shouts to play two up front, and a load of cheers when that was announced before the match. It worked in the first half, with the players visibly putting in a huge effort to chase and harass. When you do that with a squad who are less than fully fit and in the middle of a stretch of games, it's inevitable they're going to tire out later in the match. If we had adequate like-for-like replacements available to keep that up for a full 90 mins, I'm sure that's what the manager would have liked to have done, but we don't, so he couldn't.

McGowan has been in steady decline over the past couple of seasons, O'Dea is not a central midfielder in this division, Miller is a pensioner and prone to missing sitters but scoring belters, None of that is under debate, but you still haven't explained what else you think the manager should have done, or what he did wrong. Who else is he going to bring on at 70 mins, and what should he have done  tactically bar sticking an extra body in the middle of the pitch and trying to grit it out? We simply don't have the players to turn a match, or go and take it by the scruff when we're playing a very handy and well coached Killie team.

It's true we don't have the luxury of a load of time to bed this squad in, but we're in this position largely because of our totally inept first 15 matches or so. This squad is going to take a wee while to get up to speed wether we like it or not, and it's not going to be February games against Killie that decide if we stay up or not. If the squad can get a bit fitter and more used to playing with each other, then we will have opportunities to play the whole bottom 6 again as well as the remaining fixtures before the split. If we're still running out of puff after and hour and flogging late goals in April then we're in trouble, but there are at least signs over the past few weeks that this might not be the case.

If McCann was still in charge, we'd still be watching McGowan huff and puff, O'Dea look past it, and Kenny Miller running around like a heidless chicken, but I reckon we'd have even fewer points and absolutely no chance of staying up. The failings of this season so far and the poor quality of most of the squad isn't McIntyre's fault. He can only piss with the cock he's got.

[Boo Khaki]

5 minutes ago, Yenitit said:

That’s how I see it as well. I’m going to lay my neck on the line and say Madianga is a better midfielder than O’Dea. Maybe should’ve kept 1 extra body for centre midfield if he doesn’t trust the youngster enough to throw him on. 

Yep. Of all the players binned, Madianga's the only one I really don't understand. I reckon there was a player in there, hardly a world-beater, but good enough that he'd still offer something worthwhile to the squad as it stands. Could certainly have used another experienced CM on the bench tonight.

[Father Dougal McGuire]

I assumed I had just taken a dizzy turn but going by the comments on here, Darren O’Dea really did come on centre mid! How can anyone look at that carthorse and think it’s a good idea to put him up against Mulumbu? Baffling

[Dee Bliss]

1 minute ago, Boo Khaki said:

Yep. Of all the players binned, Madianga's the only one I really don't understand. I reckon there was a player in there, hardly a world-beater, but good enough that he'd still offer something worthwhile to the squad as it stands. Could certainly have used another experienced CM on the bench tonight.

I reckon Madianga offered enough to seeout the season. Perhaps he had to go to for to make money available for one of the signings on deadline day. Problem is the club don’t keep the fans up to date on things, the Kamara situation being another when he was still on the wage bill. 

[Boo Khaki]

1 minute ago, Father Dougal McGuire said:

I assumed I had just taken a dizzy turn but going by the comments on here, Darren O’Dea really did come on centre mid! How can anyone look at that carthorse and think it’s a good idea to put him up against Mulumbu? Baffling

There's nobody suggesting it's a good idea, just confused by the implications that there was an even better one that McIntyre ignored.

[Crawford]

1 minute ago, G_Man1985 said:

You go on about fitness as if this is a huge issue. These boys are professional footballers , none of this bullshit about not being fit enough or match fit as not played many games. They do f**k all else bar train and play football. It's a shite excuse.

90% of the time I would agree but look at Harkins when he was in.

Yazoo, kebabs and FIFA. In fact half of the squad were at it. 

It was that penalty tonight. That was all that was in it and it was super painful to watch. We still gained ground on the other saints.

Right now I'll take that.

[Boo Khaki]

1 minute ago, G_Man1985 said:

You go on about fitness as if this is a huge issue. These boys are professional footballers , none of this bullshit about not being fit enough or match fit as not played many games. They do f**k all else bar train and play football. It's a shite excuse.

There aren't many footballers who can tear around the pitch flat out for 90 minutes and still be running as hard at the end as they were at kick off. You might think it's an excuse, but it's reality. If they're not those kind of players, not been playing regularly before the end of last month, and probably even missed a proper pre-season in a few cases, is it any wonder they look knackered by 70 mins in when the manager has clearly given them express instructions to press hard and run themselves into the ground for as long as they can?

Fair enough if we were playing lazily paced, silky football with no pressing and they still looked burst.

There's still 13 league games to play. We need players fit for those, another reason why you don't want to push them to ridiculous levels right now either.

[Boo Khaki]

10 minutes ago, G_Man1985 said:

He brought in Sullivan who is an attacking player.. why didn't he go out and get a more defensive midfielder , rather than relying on a defender to play in midfield who everyone can see clear as day is not good enough. The board has backed him so I'm not seeing the excuse.

Maybe he did and got dingied?

Maybe he tried to and couldn't, but decided that he might as well bring in O'Sullivan at the last minute anyway, in case there's a situation where we're chasing a game and need to bring on an attacking mid?

It's possible that the O'Sullivan signing was so late because he was way down the list of priorities, but for whatever reason, none of the players McIntyre targetted ahead of O'Sullivan were able to be signed.

[RossDee01]

If only we had a good defensive midfielder eh? A Finish internationalist would be nice.

Oh wait.

[Boo Khaki]

1 minute ago, RossDee01 said:

If only we had a good defensive midfielder eh? A Finish internationalist would be nice.

Oh wait.

Sticks in the craw, but then he looked totally disinterested from the moment Sevco tapped him up. No point in greetin about it really.

[RossDee01]

Sticks in the craw, but then he looked totally disinterested from the moment Sevco tapped him up. No point in greetin about it really.

Didn’t mean it as a dig at you. The whole situation could have been handled better tbh - just look at Jones with Killie.

[Boo Khaki]

1 minute ago, RossDee01 said:

Didn’t mean it as a dig at you. The whole situation could have been handled better tbh - just look at Jones with Killie.

Didn't take it that way at all.

All I meant was that in my opinion it's better to get a player who has visibly quit out of the door asap. Still rankles that it's due to *** tampering though.

[RossBFaeDundee]

Listen, all this discussion about continuing midfield/defense issues aside, all we need is to get Nelson to score 3 goals every game for the rest of the season, then we'll be fine.

[Boo Khaki]

1 minute ago, G_Man1985 said:

What's a good season for McIntyre? I clearly feel totally different from yourself right now about how good I think he is as manager.
This is his team now pretty much is his so excuses for me Dundee fans can get them in the sea if they have any.
If we finish 10th then happy days but we then got a decide is he the main to take us forward
If we finish 11th for me that's not good enough and regardless of what league we are in he should beat it, get someone in and as we have a fair few players on loan the new manager will be able to get his own men in.
12th.. let's hope not.

Anyway no more from me. A point is better than zero so it's alright.
We have Livingston next away from home so we should be looking to get 3 points as the players will have had plenty rest so no excuse why we cant.
 

I don't really see it as being about McIntyre as much as it's about Dundee FC, and where we finish in come May considering where we were around November time.

If we finish tenth, then I'd say McIntyre's time so far has been a success considering what he walked into. It's not about individual matches, substitutions, formations etc for me. He can only be judged on where we are come May, and only then I think can you make an honest assessment of whether he's the correct choice to take us into the next season. That's when I think you go looking back and questioning individual decisions. Give him a body of work to hang himself with I suppose.