All things Dundee FC

[Dee Bliss]

2 minutes ago, Robin.Hood said:

I just feel for Kerr it's time to move on. 1 on 1 depends on who he is against. I reckon out of 12 teams in the league he is the weakest right back in the league quite easily.

Sweeney is a funny one. People see a bombscare and people see a good player. I'm still in middle regarding him. I like Anderson also however already had been telt he ain't built for this league ( I think thats bollox)

You might have a point regards the weakest right back in the league. The 2 right backs the dabs have aren’t the greatest, St Mirren’s is a bit meh but the rest are probably ahead of him tbh. 

I think Daley Campbell’s a better player than Cammy but I’d 100% have Cammy the left back out of our current squad. Lamie looks a good signing tbh. A big unit, defends the back post well and decent on the ball so that’s an improvement for next season.

Cammy’s nowhere near the biggest worry for me. The keepers, the other fullbacks a centrehalf and the striker situation boils meh piss more tbh. 

[RandomGuy.]

32 minutes ago, Yenitit said:

Lamie looks a good signing tbh. A big unit, defends the back post well and decent on the ball so that’s an improvement for next season.

If you're thinking Lamie is that type, and thinking hes a left back, then you're on course to be massively underwhelmed.

[Dee Bliss]

4 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

If you're thinking Lamie is that type, and thinking hes a left back, then you're on course to be massively underwhelmed.

f**k off aye 

[DeeTillEhDeh]

You might have a point regards the weakest right back in the league. The 2 right backs the dabs have aren’t the greatest, St Mirren’s is a bit meh but the rest are probably ahead of him tbh. 

I think Daley Campbell’s a better player than Cammy but I’d 100% have Cammy the left back out of our current squad. Lamie looks a good signing tbh. A big unit, defends the back post well and decent on the ball so that’s an improvement for next season.
Cammy’s nowhere near the biggest worry for me. The keepers, the other fullbacks a centrehalf and the striker situation boils meh piss more tbh. 

I would personally have kept Kerr at left back because Marshall has been defensively inept this season. It's been clear in several games where the opposition have targeted him as the weak link. I also think he doesn't link up that well with whoever is ahead of him.

[Boo Khaki]

14 hours ago, Yenitit said:

My biggest problem with Byrne is I don’t think he can play in a midfield 2 has to be a 3 or nothing which is a pish position to be in. 

I think that's true of every single central midfielder we have at the club, for various reasons

McGhee, Anderson, runners that don't really contribute much in the way of control or creativity, Byrne and the young lad are the type to play in front of a back four and soak things up but not really contribute going forward, McGowan, Adam, both decent enough footballers but not athletically sufficient to play in a central pair.

In theory you should be able to pair a creative type with a runner in a two, but even then the creator still has to do his share of dirty work and the runner still has to be capable enough with the ball in deeper positions. The problem we have, is that no matter which two you paired it's always going to be easy for the opponent to exploit a weakness. Either you let the guy with no ability have the ball knowing he'll waste it, or you pressure and overload the unathletic guy knowing that he won't be able to recover, disrupt your play, get the ball back, and will be caught out of position. It's been a problem with our squad for years, and McPake only eventually got to grips with it by playing McGhee as a box-to-box in a 3. 

I've been saying for years that our squad is only really suited to playing a 5/3/2 3/5/2, but that means that there's no real position for arguably our most effective player, McMullan, unless you are going to give him a free, roaming role off a central striker. It's a sign that the people at the club have never really had any clue how to structure an effective squad and team. 

[Peadar BigDinnerO'Driscoll]

I like Cammy and think he is by no means among the worst players we have but also think he has regressed over the years after looking very promising early on.

If he played in Lge 1, I don't think many people would be saying he is too good for that level.

[Ludo*1]

3 hours ago, Boo Khaki said:

I think that's true of every single central midfielder we have at the club, for various reasons

McGhee, Anderson, runners that don't really contribute much in the way of control or creativity, Byrne and the young lad are the type to play in front of a back four and soak things up but not really contribute going forward, McGowan, Adam, both decent enough footballers but not athletically sufficient to play in a central pair.

In theory you should be able to pair a creative type with a runner in a two, but even then the creator still has to do his share of dirty work and the runner still has to be capable enough with the ball in deeper positions. The problem we have, is that no matter which two you paired it's always going to be easy for the opponent to exploit a weakness. Either you let the guy with no ability have the ball knowing he'll waste it, or you pressure and overload the unathletic guy knowing that he won't be able to recover, disrupt your play, get the ball back, and will be caught out of position. It's been a problem with our squad for years, and McPake only eventually got to grips with it by playing McGhee as a box-to-box in a 3. 

I've been saying for years that our squad is only really suited to playing a 5/3/2 3/5/2, but that means that there's no real position for arguably our most effective player, McMullan, unless you are going to give him a free, roaming role off a central striker. It's a sign that the people at the club have never really had any clue how to structure an effective squad and team. 

McMullan as a RWB?

I think LWB is Marshall's best and probably only position if he's to be a regular top flight player.

[DieDee]

I'm sure another poster, pretty sure not a Dundee fan, posted that we just don't have the right kind of defenders comfortable playing a back 3 as they continually end up in no mans land. This makes a back 4 the only sensible option (we can play a back 5 against arse-cheeks but if we wish to be getting 3 points from some games that's not really the way forward). As mentioned over the last couple of pages we also just don't have that mix of players that works well for a middle 4 so we end up with a 5 man midfield otherwise we are just cut open. Not sure what the mix should be at moment as we're not scoring nearly enough (McGinn/McCowan Adam Gowser Anderson McMullen)? Perhaps Mullen coming on for Anderson or Gowser as neither last well in final 20 mins. Of course we could go for the mighty Chapman...

[Boo Khaki]

47 minutes ago, Ludo*1 said:

McMullan as a RWB?

I think LWB is Marshall's best and probably only position if he's to be a regular top flight player.

Wouldn't be keen, because there are still situations in a game where you want a defensively disciplined player in that position. I still think that first and foremost WB's are, and have to be, defensively capable players, and I'm not generally a fan of playing wingers and wide midfielders in that role. Having said that, McMullan has done it once or twice and didn't look out of place because he does have the energy and movement to get up and down the length of the pitch. Even Declan McDaid did it and probably had the best run of games he's had in dark blue playing WB. I would ideally want a defensively sound FB though who is capable going forward, and I think the fact we've had wingers play that role and not embarrass themselves is more a measure of the fact that our natural FB/WB's aren't great in any case, so the wingers don't have a lot to live up to.

If your FB's are defensively suspect though, and god knows ours are, despite not having a player in front of them I think playing there doesn't expose them as much as playing in a flat 4 does. I never want to have to see Cammy Kerr trying defend high balls to the back stick ever again, so if that means playing him at WB, fine.

[Boo Khaki]

3 minutes ago, DieDee said:

I'm sure another poster, pretty sure not a Dundee fan, posted that we just don't have the right kind of defenders comfortable playing a back 3 as they continually end up in no mans land. This makes a back 4 the only sensible option (we can play a back 5 against arse-cheeks but if we wish to be getting 3 points from some games that's not really the way forward). As mentioned over the last couple of pages we also just don't have that mix of players that works well for a middle 4 so we end up with a 5 man midfield otherwise we are just cut open. Not sure what the mix should be at moment as we're not scoring nearly enough (McGinn/McCowan Adam Gowser Anderson McMullen)? Perhaps Mullen coming on for Anderson or Gowser as neither last well in final 20 mins. Of course we could go for the mighty Chapman...

I'd agree with that. McPake tried to bring the right players in, but it didn't work. The middle of the three had to be a physical giant who can dominate the penalty spot area and defend it from all means of attack, so not just good in the air and physically strong, but also aware of runners and not easy to blindside, the outside two need to be mobile. It suited (in theory) Meekings, Forster, and probably McGhee, but Forster being a complete liability and Meekings being unable to stay fit scuppered that. It didn't work until we brought Berra in to play the role Forster was supposed to. I said this before in here, but Forster not working out completely screwed this team far beyond what I think most people realised.

[Crawford]

49 minutes ago, Boo Khaki said:

I'd agree with that. McPake tried to bring the right players in, but it didn't work. The middle of the three had to be a physical giant who can dominate the penalty spot area and defend it from all means of attack, so not just good in the air and physically strong, but also aware of runners and not easy to blindside, the outside two need to be mobile. It suited (in theory) Meekings, Forster, and probably McGhee, but Forster being a complete liability and Meekings being unable to stay fit scuppered that. It didn't work until we brought Berra in to play the role Forster was supposed to. I said this before in here, but Forster not working out completely screwed this team far beyond what I think most people realised.

Meekings is comfortably in the 5 worst players that Dundee have had in the last 10 years.

[Ludo*1]

17 minutes ago, Crawford said:

Meekings is comfortably in the 5 worst players that Dundee have had in the last 10 years.

I disagree, but you've sparked a decent idea.

My top 5 worst players in the past 10 years are:

1. James Horsfield

2. Jordon Forster

3. Jack Hamilton

4. Martin Woods

5. Ryan Inniss

[johnnydun]

8 minutes ago, Ludo*1 said:

I disagree, but you've sparked a decent idea.

My top 5 worst players in the past 10 years are:

1. James Horsfield

2. Jordon Forster

3. Jack Hamilton

4. Martin Woods

5. Ryan Inniss

1. Martin Fuckin Woods

2. Martin Fuckin Woods

3. Martin Fuckin Woods

4. Martin Fuckin Woods

5. Tom Hateley.

[Boo Khaki]

40 minutes ago, Crawford said:

Meekings is comfortably in the 5 worst players that Dundee have had in the last 10 years.

He was a perfectly adequate Premiership level defender before his injuries. Doesn't change how poorly or otherwise he played in a Dundee strip, but he wasn't poor because he'd never been up to it, which is the problem we have with the bulk of the squad right now.

In no particular order - Hamilton, Woods, Horsfield, Yordi Teijsse, Davide Grassi, Willie Dyer, Jessie Curran, Lewis Spence, Randy Wolters. All an order of magnitude more hopeless than Meekings. 

Sorry for bringing back memories for anyone who had conveniently forgotten any of the utter gang I've just listed.

[D TOTAL]

I’d have to disagree on Jack Hamilton I agree he’d cost us some points but surely he’s 10x the keeper lawlor,schneke or the other guy had a name like a pack of cigarettes Marlboro or something 

[Ludo*1]

31 minutes ago, D TOTAL said:

I’d have to disagree on Jack Hamilton I agree he’d cost us some points but surely he’s 10x the keeper lawlor,schneke or the other guy had a name like a pack of cigarettes Marlboro or something 

Malherbe never played so hard to judge him. 

I'd have Lawlor ahead of Hamilton every day of the week and twice on Sunday's.

Schenk, I didn't have to witness for the best part of three seasons and was limited to a one off game so again that's hard to judge.

[Netan Sansara]

2 hours ago, Boo Khaki said:

He was a perfectly adequate Premiership level defender before his injuries. Doesn't change how poorly or otherwise he played in a Dundee strip, but he wasn't poor because he'd never been up to it, which is the problem we have with the bulk of the squad right now.

In no particular order - Hamilton, Woods, Horsfield, Yordi Teijsse, Davide Grassi, Willie Dyer, Jessie Curran, Lewis Spence, Randy Wolters. All an order of magnitude more hopeless than Meekings. 

Sorry for bringing back memories for anyone who had conveniently forgotten any of the utter gang I've just listed.

My overriding Willie Dyer memory is him being coached (along with the rest of the back 4) about how to move up in line with the other players before a game up at Inverness. Imagine having to spend time before kick off explaining to your fullback that they can’t stand 5 metres deeper than everyone else. 

54 minutes ago, D TOTAL said:

I’d have to disagree on Jack Hamilton I agree he’d cost us some points but surely he’s 10x the keeper lawlor,schneke or the other guy had a name like a pack of cigarettes Marlboro or something 

Schenk is judged harshly because of that game but I do think he gets a hard time for it. Shipping 6 is bad, no doubt, but I honestly don’t think he’s overly at fault for any of them. It’s hard to judge him because he never played again IMO. 

[DieDee]

2 hours ago, Boo Khaki said:

Jessie Curran

Pish but >> Danny Williams, Craig Curran, Sean Mackie

[DieDee]

6 minutes ago, Netan Sansara said:

Schenk is judged harshly because of that game but I do think he gets a hard time for it. Shipping 6 is bad, no doubt, but I honestly don’t think he’s overly at fault for any of them. It’s hard to judge him because he never played again IMO. 

Agree, I remember being utterly raging at McPake, he was constantly playing the DAB's onside. Probably because he was so slow he decided to sit 5 yards behind the rest of the "defence". After all this reminiscing about the dross we've been watching over the last 10 years it's maybe time for a drink or 20 

[Derry Alli]

5 hours ago, Crawford said:

Meekings is comfortably in the 5 worst players that Dundee have had in the last 10 years.

Settle doon Crawf.