cracowjambo Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 This is a nonsense argument though. I don't believe for a minute thus happened on the first instance of lateness. But lets say it did. Are you saying an Indy Scotland would have a benefits system with no removal of benefits ever ? No sanctions? And would this evil Leven woman lose her job in the new world? Would we somehow identify and sack all these jobs worth Hitlers ? Oh nothing like this happens in the union? The poor and disadvantaged don't get punished for the slightest mistake? When I was on JSA I was offered a job where I work just now. I had a week to my start day and a sign on date in that time because i went everyweek. They said if I never looked for work I would loose my benefit even though I had a start day. If you have been on JSA you would understand how bad they can be. I looked for work I applied for the worst jobs about but 1mistake they will f**k you up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ford prefect Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 It was wonderful that 86% of the people in Scotland voted and I accept their decision. Just that from (I accept only the small number of people I know) my experience, self interest and fear won the day. I have a good job, a nice car, and house. I can afford to go great holidays and am able to pursue many hobbies and interests. However I came from a council scheme and will never forget it. I want all people to have the chance of a better life, I felt an independent Scotland was the best way of getting that, the majority didn't, I accept that. As Mick Jagger once sang "you cant always get what you want" How is any of this tear stained or ranting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted September 21, 2014 Author Share Posted September 21, 2014 Oh nothing like this happens in the union? The poor and disadvantaged don't get punished for the slightest mistake? When I was on JSA I was offered a job where I work just now. I had a week to my start day and a sign on date in that time because i went everyweek. They said if I never looked for work I would loose my benefit even though I had a start day. If you have been on JSA you would understand how bad they can be. I looked for work I applied for the worst jobs about but 1mistake they will f**k you up. Of course it does. No system with millions of people involved is perfect. You have failed to tell me in what way that is an independence issue. Are you claiming.. and think carefully here... that an independent Scotland wouldn't have such a system? Or it would be perfect and no such mistakes would happen ????? I mean seriously ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Saintee Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 Oh nothing like this happens in the union? The poor and disadvantaged don't get punished for the slightest mistake? When I was on JSA I was offered a job where I work just now. I had a week to my start day and a sign on date in that time because i went everyweek. They said if I never looked for work I would loose my benefit even though I had a start day. If you have been on JSA you would understand how bad they can be. I looked for work I applied for the worst jobs about but 1mistake they will f**k you up. This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowmore Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 I've came up with a realistic status quo.In 10 years the Scottish parliament has a few new powers but nothing really beneficial. Our budget has been cut and the SNP are doing the job with 1hand tied behind there back. The kids in poverty remain in poverty but numbers don't really change maybe 10-20000 more than now. Unemployment rates remain about the 7-8% mark. UKIP has gained a lot of power in England and it's looking likely we're going to come out the EU. More importantly a lot of the over 65s have died off. If we had another referendum YES would win because those old c***s are dead and those with a social conscience are still not happy at the fact we have food banks and Trident in Scotland. Average people don't do well we just exist. Foodbanks in Scotland have been under the direct management of Holyrood - they have had powers to deal with this since the 90s. The fact that we are in/on the edge of recession is not a factor in the minds of some. It's not right, it's not a problem unique to Scotland and as someone who sees this in my town I'm not pleased with situation. For me it's a fault of WM, for you Holyrood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banterous Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 Your post was dripping in tears. I didn't get what i wanted so society is dead?? Have you listened to your own self important rambling? And just to be clear here... the majority not voting to leave the UK and create a border between us and our cousins in England is a vote against society and values of togetherness.??? I think this is where Salmond really messed up in talking about "good neighbours" and then defending attacking WM as "part and parcel of politics". He then said "tomorrow we'll work together for Scotland no matter what the outcome of the referendum". Today proves he was lying about both! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandarilla Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 Poverty isn't just in terms of a lack of finances though - we have also sorts of poverty in Scotland (and the UK). I want to do something about that - it appears that the Westminster elite do not - mainly because folk at the bottom of society hardly vote. H_B can I ask you this question: If Scotland had voted Yes on Thursday would you have hoped that negotiations went badly, we didn't get into the EU, NATo rejected us, and so on and so on... Honest answer please... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandarilla Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 I think this is where Salmond really messed up in talking about "good neighbours" and then defending attacking WM as "part and parcel of politics". He then said "tomorrow we'll work together for Scotland no matter what the outcome of the referendum". Today proves he was lying about both! Seriously? You're still here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted September 21, 2014 Author Share Posted September 21, 2014 It was wonderful that 86% of the people in Scotland voted and I accept their decision. Just that from (I accept only the small number of people I know) my experience, self interest and fear won the day. I have a good job, a nice car, and house. I can afford to go great holidays and am able to pursue many hobbies and interests. However I came from a council scheme and will never forget it. I want all people to have the chance of a better life, I felt an independent Scotland was the best way of getting that, the majority didn't, I accept that. As Mick Jagger once sang "you cant always get what you want" How is any of this tear stained or ranting? Yes.. you feel. You. That's.. you. I feel differently. In a democracy if more people feel like you we have independence. I think that would be divisive, selfish and creating new borders with the UK rest of the UK is contrary to my beliefs. But if people wanted to go small and parochial... that would be fine. I'd have happily accepted thus. We didn't. We voted to keep the UK family together. That was democracy. Your post was all about you you and... you. Says it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banterous Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 Foodbanks in Scotland have been under the direct management of Holyrood - they have had powers to deal with this since the 90s. The fact that we are in/on the edge of recession is not a factor in the minds of some. It's not right, it's not a problem unique to Scotland and as someone who sees this in my town I'm not pleased with situation. For me it's a fault of WM, for you Holyrood. That's a good point actually but when you're talking to people who are probably drunk, crying and punching a wall when they read a sensible post, you're not going to win an argument Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banterous Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 Seriously? You're still here? So that I can read your contradictory, tear stained and idiotic posts. Seriously like totally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracowjambo Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 That's relative poverty. Which is the problem here. I mean actual poverty. Of course that exists and i do help it as i can. As i said i give monthly donations to Food banks. Not saving the world but every bit helps. As i said above though parental neglect plays a big factor here. I was lucky growing up in a poor household. I had parents who were responsible and had priorities. That's where the biggest problem is. Selfishness. Kids can go hungry because i want 6 cans of cider and 20 regal king size. Ok those in relative poverty don't need help. Those kids that are neglected don't need help either because the mum and dad could stop smoking or drinking and they will all be well off. Why is it so hard for you to admit that the government failed you, me and all the other kids that grew up in poverty. You stand by them and support the BILLIONS wasted on trident, HS1, 2 aircraft carriers etc.... While there is people right now wondering where their next meal will come from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted September 21, 2014 Author Share Posted September 21, 2014 Poverty isn't just in terms of a lack of finances though - we have also sorts of poverty in Scotland (and the UK). I want to do something about that - it appears that the Westminster elite do not - mainly because folk at the bottom of society hardly vote. H_B can I ask you this question: If Scotland had voted Yes on Thursday would you have hoped that negotiations went badly, we didn't get into the EU, NATo rejected us, and so on and so on... Honest answer please... No and i really do mean that honestly. I'd have been hoping for no currency union but that's because i don't think it would be in Scotland s interests. I wasn't going to leave here regardless of the result. And km not in favour of the Euro or leaving the EU. So I'd have wanted Scotland's application to proceed as smoothly as possible and for businesses to stay and jobs to stay. Most people are the same. Whether they voted Yes or No. Its why i think the division by some is so stupid. If people want to think that No voters don't want the best for Scotland i think they are deluded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ford prefect Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 Yes.. you feel. You. That's.. you. I feel differently. In a democracy if more people feel like you we have independence. I think that would be divisive, selfish and creating new borders with the UK rest of the UK is contrary to my beliefs. But if people wanted to go small and parochial... that would be fine. I'd have happily accepted thus. We didn't. We voted to keep the UK family together. That was democracy. Your post was all about you you and... you. Says it all. Exactly did my post not start off with, I respect the democratic opinion? Or do you choose to ignore I said that, so that it gives you the excuse to have another rant about YES voters? I hope i'm wrong and we get these great new powers, we'll just have to wait and see Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted September 21, 2014 Author Share Posted September 21, 2014 Ok those in relative poverty don't need help. Those kids that are neglected don't need help either because the mum and dad could stop smoking or drinking and they will all be well off. Why is it so hard for you to admit that the government failed you, me and all the other kids that grew up in poverty. You stand by them and support the BILLIONS wasted on trident, HS1, 2 aircraft carriers etc.... While there is people right now wondering where their next meal will come from. In what way have they failed us? Has every government in the works failed us then? Lets look at this. Should Alex Salmond be flying in a Lear jet when one child goes hungry? Yes or No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny the jambo Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 This doesn't happen. No one has their benefits removed for being late for 1 meeting. Stop being a credulous moron. It must be great being so superior to everyone else I'm glad we can have these discussions with pillars of the community such as yourself who have the benefit of seeing every claim made and thinks £54 per week is enough to feed a family of four I know. Why don't you hit the streets of Glasgow with your pals and beat up young girls for waving a Scotland flag? That will show us all how big and clever you are! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banterous Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 In what way have they failed us? Has every government in the works failed us then? Lets look at this. Should Alex Salmond be flying in a Lear jet when one child goes hungry? Yes or No. That's why I got irked by the Yes voters and their rich chronies talking about eradicating poverty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted September 21, 2014 Author Share Posted September 21, 2014 Should the SNP have wasted taxpayer money in a court case to prevent disclosure of a blank bit of paper when one child goes hungry... yes or no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandarilla Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 No and i really do mean that honestly. I'd have been hoping for no currency union but that's because i don't think it would be in Scotland s interests. I wasn't going to leave here regardless of the result. And km not in favour of the Euro or leaving the EU. So I'd have wanted Scotland's application to proceed as smoothly as possible and for businesses to stay and jobs to stay. Most people are the same. Whether they voted Yes or No. Its why i think the division by some is so stupid. If people want to think that No voters don't want the best for Scotland i think they are deluded. An excellent post - and I do actually believe you (which makes me think you intentionally troll on here cos sometimes your posts are nowhere near as rational as this). The only thing I'd change is that I want what's best for the majority in society - a kind of Left v Right situation. The neoliberal path we're currently on only helps those who are already doing well (shown by the fact that Gideon will tell you that growth is happening and the recovery is going well - but this has no effect on the vast majority of ordinary people). Those at the bottom have been cut adrift and are given benefits to keep them from rioting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracowjambo Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 Of course it does. No system with millions of people involved is perfect. You have failed to tell me in what way that is an independence issue. Are you claiming.. and think carefully here... that an independent Scotland wouldn't have such a system? Or it would be perfect and no such mistakes would happen ????? I mean seriously ? The system would have its flaws but it could also be fair. I'm never said independence would be perfect I can see the positives of both sides. I just think that having a system that punishes the poor is a disgrace. Your too wrapped up in gloating to see the positive effect independence could have had on Scotland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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