H_B Posted September 21, 2014 Author Share Posted September 21, 2014 An excellent post - and I do actually believe you (which makes me think you intentionally troll on here cos sometimes your posts are nowhere near as rational as this). The only thing I'd change is that I want what's best for the majority in society - a kind of Left v Right situation. The neoliberal path we're currently on only helps those who are already doing well (shown by the fact that Gideon will tell you that growth is happening and the recovery is going well - but this has no effect on the vast majority of ordinary people). Those at the bottom have been cut adrift and are given benefits to keep them from rioting. I agree in a lot of ways. One thing I've always believed and its that things took a turn for the worse when people stopped viewing a house as somewhere to live.. but as an investment to make money on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confidemus Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 H_B's really excelling himself on this thread. Whataboutery and deflection, with a complete failure to address any of the real issues at hand. Way to go, champ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowmore Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 Fcuk it, here's another question asked elsewhere. Prior to the first referendum in the 70s were was the will to separate? It seems that for a LONG time Scotland was more than happy to a part of a larger economy and with access to trade benefits of the colonies and part of a wider family. Some might say that there is a hint of 'discovering oil' around that time that has lead to some wanting to say thanks for all of the support but "Fcuk you losers, were loaded!". It's a bit man city chav if so but shows the true character of a percentage of the 44. Thankfully most true Scots, the real team Scotland is not made up of fair weather friends and those sad few that hate England because, like Salmond, they've seen braveheart! A true breakdown of the 44 would reveal findings beyond age but hey ho, it doesn't matter, the people of Scotland have decided. Most will move on to build a better United Kingdom for all, leaving The Few bigots and anarchists behind to fester in their own bile. God bless the 55 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracowjambo Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 Should the SNP have wasted taxpayer money in a court case to prevent disclosure of a blank bit of paper when one child goes hungry... yes or no? Should we pay mp's expenses when they earn 60k+ Yes or no? Should we pay to keep WMD Yes or no? Should we pay for the royal family yes or no? Should we pay to fight wars that are not ours to fight Yes or no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted September 21, 2014 Author Share Posted September 21, 2014 The system would have its flaws but it could also be fair. I'm never said independence would be perfect I can see the positives of both sides. I just think that having a system that punishes the poor is a disgrace. Your too wrapped up in gloating to see the positive effect independence could have had on Scotland. It could. It could also have had a negative effect. Or much more likely... very little effect. Any system of benefits is open to abuse and open to criticism. And I've had a lot of experience with benefits... my dad suffered from mental illness and was unable to work for periods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted September 21, 2014 Author Share Posted September 21, 2014 Should we pay mp's expenses when they earn 60k+Yes or no?Should we pay to keep WMDYes or no?Should we pay for the royal familyyes or no?Should we pay to fight wars that are not ours to fightYes or no? You didn't answer my questions. I thought we were talking about Scotland ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracowjambo Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 In what way have they failed us? Has every government in the works failed us then? Lets look at this. Should Alex Salmond be flying in a Lear jet when one child goes hungry? Yes or No. Ok they never failed you. You had food and heat, they failed ME. I'm not bitter about living in poverty However it annoys me that people can let a government carry on to allow this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracowjambo Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 You didn't answer my questions. I thought we were talking about Scotland ? So Scotland does not pay for these things? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted September 21, 2014 Author Share Posted September 21, 2014 Ok they never failed you. You had food and heat, they failed ME. I'm not bitter about living in poverty However it annoys me that people can let a government carry on to allow this. Was that a Yes or No? Is Holyrood prioritising poverty currently? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandarilla Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 Fcuk it, here's another question asked elsewhere. Prior to the first referendum in the 70s were was the will to separate? It seems that for a LONG time Scotland was more than happy to a part of a larger economy and with access to trade benefits of the colonies and part of a wider family. Some might say that there is a hint of 'discovering oil' around that time that has lead to some wanting to say thanks for all of the support but "Fcuk you losers, were loaded!". It's a bit man city chav if so but shows the true character of a percentage of the 44. Thankfully most true Scots, the real team Scotland is not made up of fair weather friends and those sad few that hate England because, like Salmond, they've seen braveheart! A true breakdown of the 44 would reveal findings beyond age but hey ho, it doesn't matter, the people of Scotland have decided. Most will move on to build a better United Kingdom for all, leaving The Few bigots and anarchists behind to fester in their own bile. God bless the 55 Missing the point entirely. The 70s was before Thatcher and her neoliberal politics that have divided society so much. That's the difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted September 21, 2014 Author Share Posted September 21, 2014 So Scotland does not pay for these things? What? The SNP wasting our money on legal defences of blank bits of paper? Yes.. yes we do! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banterous Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 Missing the point entirely. The 70s was before Thatcher and her neoliberal politics that have divided society so much. That's the difference. I hope you understand the concept before you go into an argument. remember the civic "nationalism" one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracowjambo Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 What? The SNP wasting our money on legal defences of blank bits of paper? Yes.. yes we do! We're wasting billions more than the SNP could even dream of for what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingrodent Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 Exactly. On the video below, lorries transporting destructive power almost beyond imagination. And you know what? They don't want them in England. The Yanks moved out in March 1992 just a few miles away from Coulport/Faslane, but the Royal Navy still has them very close to Scotland's biggest city. Royal Navy flag: You know that the nukes are in Scotland because Scotland is closer to Russia, if you go over the North Pole? They're a relic of the Cold War, one of humanity's most embarrassingly stupid episodes, but they're not here because the Tories hate us (although many of them do). They're here because it's lots quicker to nuke Russia from Scotland than it is to nuke it from Kent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandarilla Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 I hope you understand the concept before you go into an argument. remember the civic "nationalism" one? I've been reading quite a lot about neoliberalism in the last few weeks. I'm not an economist but I understand the concept. I don't understand what your point is however? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowmore Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 Missing the point entirely. The 70s was before Thatcher and her neoliberal politics that have divided society so much. That's the difference. That's bollocks and you know it. The last two years have seen nothing but salmond and his cronies in the yes camp going on about oil, being the 14th richest country in the world, the money we pay to WM blah, blah, blah. As I say fairwrather friends, selfish money orientated chavs the likes of which haven't been seen since man city were taken over. You should be ashamed of yourselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confidemus Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 That's bollocks and you know it. The last two years have seen nothing but salmond and his cronies in the yes camp going on about oil, being the 14th to hear country in the world, the money we pay to WM blah, blah, blah. As I say fairwrather friends, selfish money orientated chavs the likes of which haven't been seen since man city were taken over. You should be ashamed of yourselves. You seem a reasonable chap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandarilla Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 That's bollocks and you know it. The last two years have seen nothing but salmond and his cronies in the yes camp going on about oil, being the 14th to hear country in the world, the money we pay to WM blah, blah, blah. As I say fairwrather friends, selfish money orientated chavs the likes of which haven't been seen since man city were taken over. You should be ashamed of yourselves. Spectacularly missing the point. The Yes campaign was almost too socialist for its own good. The wealthy in Scotland absolutely voted No. You can't be this stupid chief? Surely? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracowjambo Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 You know that the nukes are in Scotland because Scotland is closer to Russia, if you go over the North Pole? They're a relic of the Cold War, one of humanity's most embarrassingly stupid episodes, but they're not here because the Tories hate us (although many of them do). They're here because it's lots quicker to nuke Russia from Scotland than it is to nuke it from Kent. If Russia fires it's nukes first do you think a extra 20seconds is going to do much? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingrodent Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 If Russia fires it's nukes first do you think a extra 20seconds is going to do much? That's how mental people were in those days, sadly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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