Confidemus Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 Ffs,have you got a wife?you wouldn't have thought that with the amount of time you spend on here.lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandarilla Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 They didn't have a good enough strategy to deal with the unionist media power which, of course was always going to be difficult. The white paper was a pretty big flaw as was addressing voter concerns with "it's not about that". I previously, in this small thread, called the No campaign possibly the worst in history. Talking shite? Oh wait I owe you a huge apology. I genuinely thought you were saying the Yes campaign was 'possibly one of the worst political campaigns ever'. I simply misread the post and decided that you were a total numpty. I apologise for saying you were talking shite - its just too damn early and I'm a bit sleep deprived. In terms of the argument how could the Yes campaign have done more to 'deal' with the unionist media power? They galvanized social media and I don't see how that could've been any more convincing. Unfortunately for the Yes campaign there are hundreds of thousands of people (especially older folk) who do not interact with social media - and instead get their information from the TV, radio and newspapers. Personally I also think that a lot of the old voters who associate themselves with Britain (due to their ties with the war and the post-war welfare state creation) would never be willing to vote Yes - no matter what the Yes campaign said or did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 Even half-intelligent No voters admit that the No campaign was dreadful but managed to do enough - and that the Yes campaign was a very good campaign, with maybe a few flaws if you're being critical. I certainly don't think the Yes campaign was "very good" with maybe a few flaws if you are being critical. It was average, with many many flaws easily identified. That said, the BT campaign was abysmal with no redeeming features. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confidemus Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 Oh wait I owe you a huge apology. I genuinely thought you were saying the Yes campaign was 'possibly one of the worst political campaigns ever'. I simply misread the post and decided that you were a total numpty. I apologise for saying you were talking shite - its just too damn early and I'm a bit sleep deprived. In terms of the argument how could the Yes campaign have done more to 'deal' with the unionist media power? They galvanized social media and I don't see how that could've been any more convincing. Unfortunately for the Yes campaign there are hundreds of thousands of people (especially older folk) who do not interact with social media - and instead get their information from the TV, radio and newspapers. Personally I also think that a lot of the old voters who associate themselves with Britain (due to their ties with the war and the post-war welfare state creation) would never be willing to vote Yes - no matter what the Yes campaign said or did. Pretty much perfectly summed up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandarilla Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 I certainly don't think the Yes campaign was "very good" with maybe a few flaws if you are being critical. It was average, with many many flaws easily identified. That said, the BT campaign was abysmal with no redeeming features. Really? Well I have to say I'm shocked by this revelation. People who have had previously very little interest in politics are now members of political parties - engaged with the big issues of the day. Andrew Marr described the Scottish electorate as the most politically literate on the planet right now. He didn't give credit to the Yes campaign for that and instead put it down to the referendum in general. I think he's wrong. Would you agree with me that the Yes campaign deserve more credit for getting the nation engaged in the debate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confidemus Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 Would you agree with me that the Yes campaign deserve more credit for getting the nation engaged in the debate? Of course he wouldn't. H_B would disagree with you if you told him fire is hot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nowthennowthen Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 Oh wait I owe you a huge apology. I genuinely thought you were saying the Yes campaign was 'possibly one of the worst political campaigns ever'. I simply misread the post and decided that you were a total numpty. I apologise for saying you were talking shite - its just too damn early and I'm a bit sleep deprived. In terms of the argument how could the Yes campaign have done more to 'deal' with the unionist media power? They galvanized social media and I don't see how that could've been any more convincing. Unfortunately for the Yes campaign there are hundreds of thousands of people (especially older folk) who do not interact with social media - and instead get their information from the TV, radio and newspapers. Personally I also think that a lot of the old voters who associate themselves with Britain (due to their ties with the war and the post-war welfare state creation) would never be willing to vote Yes - no matter what the Yes campaign said or did. no worries lol. It was always going to be hard. Like you say about old voters and some supporters of a recently formed football team there were a lot of people who weren't "ready". The SNP and their style were not likely to turn many of these round imo. Possible a false start was always needed so a broader campaign was needed. For me, considering it was 60+ years in the making, the white paper was a let down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandarilla Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 no worries lol. It was always going to be hard. Like you say about old voters and some supporters of a recently formed football team there were a lot of people who weren't "ready". The SNP and their style were not likely to turn many of these round imo. Possible a false start was always needed so a broader campaign was needed. For me, considering it was 60+ years in the making, the white paper was a let down. I always felt that there was a huge amount of variables - depending on how the negotiations went. In that respect it was always difficult to give concrete plans because quite simply too much would have to be decided after a Yes vote. They also had to balance out promising that there would be no drastic changes but at the same time leave open the possibility for real changes for those who wanted it. This is an incredibly difficult balance and I thought they did pretty well. In the aftermath not much would've changed but it would all come down to the first few elections in an independent Scotland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nowthennowthen Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 Being out numbered by "the heavyweights" was always going to make it difficult. This referendum should really set the foundation the next, whenever that may be. The newly politically active people hold the key to their own success now. Hopefully the Greens can take advantage and gain some momentum to give people another alternative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandarilla Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 Being out numbered by "the heavyweights" was always going to make it difficult. This referendum should really set the foundation the next, whenever that may be. The newly politically active people hold the key to their own success now. Hopefully the Greens can take advantage and gain some momentum to give people another alternative. Amen to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taza Posted October 18, 2014 Author Share Posted October 18, 2014 Point is though, were we guilty of neglecting the ''stupid''? If so, what can we do in future to remedy this? I think we should all seek out, the most stupid in our own areas and get some practice in. I know it'll be mind numbing, I'm actually currently residing in a place rammed with Rangers supporting (non match going), Labour supporting (generally non-voting), Daily Record reading muppets, so I do know stupid, believe me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarkston5 Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 So now it's "we lost because they're stupid" Surely at some point responsibility should result in introspection? Please say yes...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confidemus Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 So now it's "we lost because they're stupid" Surely at some point responsibility should result in introspection? Please say yes...... Welcome back, Banterous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarkston5 Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 Welcome back, Banterous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taza Posted October 18, 2014 Author Share Posted October 18, 2014 So now it's "we lost because they're stupid" Surely at some point responsibility should result in introspection? Please say yes...... Selfish, Spineless or Stupid, correct and.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haggis pakora Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 Point is though, were we guilty of neglecting the ''stupid''? If so, what can we do in future to remedy this? I think we should all seek out, the most stupid in our own areas and get some practice in. I know it'll be mind numbing, I'm actually currently residing in a place rammed with Rangers supporting (non match going), Labour supporting (generally non-voting), Daily Record reading muppets, so I do know stupid, believe me. Idiot found. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haggis pakora Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 Welcome back, Banterous. But...bu...b,I thought I was this character? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taza Posted October 18, 2014 Author Share Posted October 18, 2014 Idiot found. I didn't even need to bait the fucking hook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confidemus Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 But...bu...b,I thought I was this character? No, you're some other fuckwad. Clarkston 5 has all the hallmarks of Banterous. Turns out you're just a pale imitation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 Dare I ask but...what did the Daily Record and jackie Bird do? The Record probably leaned no, but didn't endorse either side and generally was pretty fair. Bull. Bird was visibly contemptuous of Salmon and gave Darling an easy ride. The Record didn't lean no, it was no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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