LongTimeLurker Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 Senior vs junior rant rave rant rave, it's all just football and one lot's as bad as the other when it comes to being driven by narrow self-interest, because that's just part of the human condition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTG Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 If I showed you our balance sheet for the season it really would shock you It's basically league 3 costs but without the grants etc teams like Albion Rovers receive . Whatever we pay out we have to raise in to pay our way. We have no extra cash bar what we work damn hard for to get I would be all for joining a set up where the club is assured of x amount every season to progress ourselves the way certain teams can But at this time there is no such thing in place The East/West thing isn't the answer It's just Oor Tom trying to hold onto power & the Lowland league is a farce for your East Stirlings to hold onto their senior status as the teams at the top of the ll won't get near strong enough to challenge. It has to be something in the mould of what the English have but too many folk would have to bite the bullet & lose power for that to happen LADESIDE That's all fair enough and if you never want the situation to change then keep doing what you've always done. There is a reason why these teams receive a share of the tv money - they're prepared to align to the SFA's requirements on licencing. Keep blocking every initiative and every request made and the SFA will keep handing out to those who are prepared to play ball. I doubt if Ladeside are anywhere near SPFL2 costs personally. I'm not saying that running a top flight Junior team is either cheap or easy - I know what it costs us so I'm not having a go at anyone who works really hard to keep their club going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 Which they were never entitled to be in anyway. The Seniors gave four wild card places to the Juniors as a token of good faith, and those clubs which have taken part have done very nicely out of it - in Talbot's case enough to be talking about building a second stand from the proceeds (whilst certain others which entered have simply spunked it all on players... plus ça change!). How have the Juniors repaid the Seniors for this? Refusing point blank to have anything to do with the Lowland League, and when it went ahead without them anyway they immediately talked about rushing up their own competing one. Any wonder why some have completely lost their patience with what seems like a collective of the most self centred clubs in all British football? I can assure you that absolutely no money generated from the Senior Scottish Cup went towards Talbot's new enclose. Talbot have a sub committee who work on ground improvements, that committee raised the cash for that project out with the club's budget. As for Junior teams doing nicely out of inclusion, can I suggest that in my experience every club Talbot have met have done nicely out of Talbot's inclusion. I hazard a guess these supposed senior clubs benefited similarly from Rose and Bo'ness. I am steadfastly coming to the opinion that they probably need the big Junior clubs more than we need them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaffenThinMint Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 I can assure you that absolutely no money generated from the Senior Scottish Cup went towards Talbot's new enclose. Talbot have a sub committee who work on ground improvements, that committee raised the cash for that project out with the club's budget. As for Junior teams doing nicely out of inclusion, can I suggest that in my experience every club Talbot have met have done nicely out of Talbot's inclusion. I hazard a guess these supposed senior clubs benefited similarly from Rose and Bo'ness. I am steadfastly coming to the opinion that they probably need the big Junior clubs more than we need them. It's exactly shitgibbonry like the above which gives the "they're Junior thickos, so they are" morons all the ammunition they need. If you truly believe that ludicrous statement highlighted you are more to be pitied than scolded. Having the Juniors in makes for a nice novelty for the very few clubs SPFL ever facing one, but don't kid yourselves it amounts to anything more. You're not quite the special little snowflakes your inverted snobbery would delude yourselves into being. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Wilson Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 Shotts on their day can mustard a decent support.Read that again. Do try and ketchup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monster Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 Waffen is a troll. Having exposed his obvious pathetic lies about Troon he's left that particular building and entered the taxi to another troll destination. He learned all his trolling from his incredibly creepy six month obsession with a teenage Morton fan on the forum. It was a tad disturbing, but seems to have given him the emphasis to continue in the junior forum. If he turns on your particular club, lay out the facts, watch him move on and content yourself with a job well done. Oh, and please come to Troon to see a game. We're alright. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 It's exactly shitgibbonry like the above which gives the "they're Junior thickos, so they are" morons all the ammunition they need. If you truly believe that ludicrous statement highlighted you are more to be pitied than scolded. Having the Juniors in makes for a nice novelty for the very few clubs SPFL ever facing one, but don't kid yourselves it amounts to anything more. You're not quite the special little snowflakes your inverted snobbery would delude yourselves into being. Think I'll take Monster's advice and treat that post with the contempt it deserves! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaffenThinMint Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 Think I'll take Monster's advice and treat that post with the contempt it deserves! You mean the "advice" which he has reposted - word for word - after it was PMed to him from a certain shitstirrer in GD I've already reported in the recent past for attempting to start troll threads on here? Part of the problem in P&B is certain clowns aren't as clever as they like to think they are - that goes for outside of the Juniors forum as within it. As stated oft before, the Juniors aren't some indispensible piece of a Scottish football jigsaw able to dictate terms any more than Queen's Park were in their day or Rangers in latter times - far bigger fish which nevertheless were filleted when they pushed their luck. It appears Johnston has recognised this (or been warned behind the scenes by the SFA to get the Juniors busted back into line and start being more cooperative) and clubs will be coerced into reform if they won't do so voluntarily - not very edifying, but the hidebound element will only have themselves to blame if this comes to pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dipple burn Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 Goudie forgot to add that our recent windfall generated by the Hearts game was used mostly on the upkeep of our playing surface. Money well spent as can be seen. "Shitgibbonry" now that's a word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monster Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 You mean the "advice" which he has reposted - word for word - after it was PMed to him from a certain shitstirrer in GD I've already reported in the recent past for attempting to start troll threads on here? Part of the problem in P&B is certain clowns aren't as clever as they like to think they are - that goes for outside of the Juniors forum as within it. Everything I post is my own opinion and absolutely nobody has ever PM'd me anything about you. It seems you have some serious paranoia issues! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 You mean the "advice" which he has reposted - word for word - after it was PMed to him from a certain shitstirrer in GD I've already reported in the recent past for attempting to start troll threads on here? Part of the problem in P&B is certain clowns aren't as clever as they like to think they are - that goes for outside of the Juniors forum as within it. As stated oft before, the Juniors aren't some indispensible piece of a Scottish football jigsaw able to dictate terms any more than Queen's Park were in their day or Rangers in latter times - far bigger fish which nevertheless were filleted when they pushed their luck. It appears Johnston has recognised this (or been warned behind the scenes by the SFA to get the Juniors busted back into line and start being more cooperative) and clubs will be coerced into reform if they won't do so voluntarily - not very edifying, but the hidebound element will only have themselves to blame if this comes to pass. I was referring to the amount of money clubs like Bo'ness Talbot and Rose generate through having a big following as oppose to virtually no fans as what so ever as I have witnessed. It is a fair point but like you say, some think they are smarter than they actually are, ever looked in the mirror! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaffenThinMint Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 Everything I post is my own opinion and absolutely nobody has ever PM'd me anything about you. It seems you have some serious paranoia issues! With respect, that it came right out of the blue in the middle of this discussion doesn't exactly suggest originality on your part. It reads more that you had it spoonfed to you, yet still managed to dribble half of it down your bib. Your prat in question has been regularly trolling P&B (including making up all number of ludicrous fantasies about others "stalking" him - a troll gambit that wasn't even original back in the days I moderated a MOH/BF2 forum) long before I ever joined the site (long after his teens, btw) & long after I stuck him on ignore several years ago. Many have him on Ignore because it's impossible to have any sort of adult conversation with him - he seems obsessed with scoring points off random strangers like some petulant brat. The owner of this website Div permabanned him last year when even he finally tired of his boorishness until he promised to behave. But don't take my word for it. Go on, send Div a PM and ask him about the evil little shit, don't be too surprised if you're left with a whole box of eggs on your face for it. Or ask Jamie, RRG, HJ, or anyone else in the Juniors section that's had dealings with him. If you can't take opinions contrary to your own, man up instead of crying "troll" and accept not everyone thinks all is sunshine vomit and shitting rainbows in the Merry Old Land of SJFA. I was referring to the amount of money clubs like Bo'ness Talbot and Rose generate through having a big following as oppose to virtually no fans as what so ever as I have witnessed. It is a fair point but like you say, some think they are smarter than they actually are, ever looked in the mirror! But that's just it, those days where that was any sort of winning hand for the Juniors to play passed when club licencing came into being, which will naturally - and swiftly - shove the Wigtowns and Civil Service Strollers into the amateur abyss where no licenced club will ever have to face them in the Scottish Cup ever again. One of the major reliefs for clubs having the Juniors on board in the Scottish Cup was meaning in the early rounds the increased prospects of a decent gate by deign of lessening the odds on getting an EoS/SoS side where certain clubs exist in a spectator vacuum. This will no longer be a concern soon (bar the University sides, although there is at least the comfort of playing on excellent facilities rather than the elongated back gardens of the worst of the EoS and SoS), and with it goes the Juniors last bargain chip - whereupon the SFA can simply bust them into line at will or kill them by delicensing their leagues if they continue to be obstinate. The latter is unlikely, even for those lunatics at Hampden, but remember this is an organisation that within living memory was happy to sit back and lose the entire town of Airdrie to football (and subsequently Clydebank) on "principle" - a combined catchment area of 100 000 - so it's pretty safe to say they'd not lose a wink over pulling the plug on the whole Junior structure than lose even a day's face to SJFA members if push came to shove. If the Juniors are to have any influence over Scottish football's future - indeed their future - they'd better show signs of readiness to evolve before the Cockwomble and co decide to involuntarily genetically modify them first - which may go to explain Johnston's recent tougher talk towards the clubs he's supposed to be the mouthpiece of first and foremost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monster Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 I suspect it's you that can't handle alternative opinions. As soon as I expose your nonsense about my team you don't have a credible answer, rather you bizarrely accuse me of acting on behalf of some mystery person by PM. It's not the first time you've had a knee-jerk reaction to other posters though, and I doubt it'll be the last. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaffenThinMint Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 I suspect it's you that can't handle alternative opinions. As soon as I expose your nonsense about my team you don't have a credible answer, rather you bizarrely accuse me of acting on behalf of some mystery person by PM. It's not the first time you've had a knee-jerk reaction to other posters though, and I doubt it'll be the last. You exposed sweet FA. You barfed off to anyone that would listen about the mighty improvements Troon had done, and I pointed out all in reality they amounted to was basic refurbishment to the existing antiquated facilities, nothing more, and all the mental gymnastics in the world aren't going to kid anyone outside of the Junior world otherwise - the people you need to start getting a lot more through the front door to survive. In the real world routine wear-and-tear maintenance does not get you a round of applause for innovation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 With respect, that it came right out of the blue in the middle of this discussion doesn't exactly suggest originality on your part. It reads more that you had it spoonfed to you, yet still managed to dribble half of it down your bib. Your prat in question has been regularly trolling P&B (including making up all number of ludicrous fantasies about others "stalking" him - a troll gambit that wasn't even original back in the days I moderated a MOH/BF2 forum) long before I ever joined the site (long after his teens, btw) & long after I stuck him on ignore several years ago. Many have him on Ignore because it's impossible to have any sort of adult conversation with him - he seems obsessed with scoring points off random strangers like some petulant brat. The owner of this website Div permabanned him last year when even he finally tired of his boorishness until he promised to behave. But don't take my word for it. Go on, send Div a PM and ask him about the evil little shit, don't be too surprised if you're left with a whole box of eggs on your face for it. Or ask Jamie, RRG, HJ, or anyone else in the Juniors section that's had dealings with him. If you can't take opinions contrary to your own, man up instead of crying "troll" and accept not everyone thinks all is sunshine vomit and shitting rainbows in the Merry Old Land of SJFA. But that's just it, those days where that was any sort of winning hand for the Juniors to play passed when club licencing came into being, which will naturally - and swiftly - shove the Wigtowns and Civil Service Strollers into the amateur abyss where no licenced club will ever have to face them in the Scottish Cup ever again. One of the major reliefs for clubs having the Juniors on board in the Scottish Cup was meaning in the early rounds the increased prospects of a decent gate by deign of lessening the odds on getting an EoS/SoS side where certain clubs exist in a spectator vacuum. This will no longer be a concern soon (bar the University sides, although there is at least the comfort of playing on excellent facilities rather than the elongated back gardens of the worst of the EoS and SoS), and with it goes the Juniors last bargain chip - whereupon the SFA can simply bust them into line at will or kill them by delicensing their leagues if they continue to be obstinate. The latter is unlikely, even for those lunatics at Hampden, but remember this is an organisation that within living memory was happy to sit back and lose the entire town of Airdrie to football (and subsequently Clydebank) on "principle" - a combined catchment area of 100 000 - so it's pretty safe to say they'd not lose a wink over pulling the plug on the whole Junior structure than lose even a day's face to SJFA members if push came to shove. If the Juniors are to have any influence over Scottish football's future - indeed their future - they'd better show signs of readiness to evolve before the Cockwomble and co decide to involuntarily genetically modify them first - which may go to explain Johnston's recent tougher talk towards the clubs he's supposed to be the mouthpiece of first and foremost. Every club Talbot have faced in the Senior Scottish has benefited even Hearts as Talbot took double the amount St Mirren and ST Johnstone took to Tyncastle even if you added the two together, I'm not just talking about South of Scotland, Edinburgh City have no fans for example. Catchment area counts for nothing as has been illustrated by Medda and even more compounded EK Thistle. Big supported Junior Clubs bring much to the table, in some cases more than anyone else in non league. You might be right though regarding pulling the plug, I just point to the folly of that thinking! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monster Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 You exposed sweet FA. You barfed off to anyone that would listen about the mighty improvements Troon had done, and I pointed out all in reality they amounted to was basic refurbishment to the existing antiquated facilities, nothing more, and all the mental gymnastics in the world aren't going to kid anyone outside of the Junior world otherwise - the people you need to start getting a lot more through the front door to survive. In the real world routine wear-and-tear maintenance does not get you a round of applause for innovation. Two things: Firstly, the place has been refurbished into a tidy little ground, something you disputed, used outdated, pre-refurbishment photos as evidence. So, as I said, you were wrong. Secondly, you accused me of copying and pasting a post or posts from some mystery person. You were wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaffenThinMint Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Every club Talbot have faced in the Senior Scottish has benefited even Hearts as Talbot took double the amount St Mirren and ST Johnstone took to Tyncastle even if you added the two together, I'm not just talking about South of Scotland, Edinburgh City have no fans for example. Catchment area counts for nothing as has been illustrated by Medda and even more compounded EK Thistle. Big supported Junior Clubs bring much to the table, in some cases more than anyone else in non league. You might be right though regarding pulling the plug, I just point to the folly of that thinking! St Johnstone fans boycotted their game at Hearts because of a silly row over pricing (St Johnstone insisted the gate fee be that for two SPL sides even though it was a Scottish Cup tie & Hearts response was to close the Wheatfield to reduce the gate revenue in spite). Talbot took far more fans than normal because it was a rare big game - same as Gretna somehow managed to fill one end of Hampden for the Scottish Cup final despite being two villages whose populations would have filled one row. As has been noted on here & in the LL/EoS sections, Talbot have a history for bumming up their away supports in rank & file cup matches that the attendance figures afterwards fail to correspond to. Fact remains the Juniors are pipsqueaks in the grand order - same as the HL & LL - & it's all very well talking about what you can bring to a "table" you refuse to even sit at. The Juniors are in no position any longer to dictate terms - they blew it with their obstinance two years ago - & the sooner they wise up to this fact, the better their chances of rescuing something from the mess they've now got themselves in. Two things: Firstly, the place has been refurbished into a tidy little ground, something you disputed, used outdated, pre-refurbishment photos as evidence. So, as I said, you were wrong. Secondly, you accused me of copying and pasting a post or posts from some mystery person. You were wrong. "the place has been refurbished" "the place has been refurbished" "the place has been refurbished" At long last, you have finally admitted that the "improvements" to Troon's antiquated set up were nothing of the kind and merely the refurbishment of what already existed. Got there in the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wishyman Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Going back to the original point, a combined league from Ayrshire/central suits me just fine. I get out of Wishy for a day most weekends, get to visit the Ayrshire hotspots and have a laugh with my laddie who's based in the Port these days. Don't be trying to take that away from me now! £ for £ entry fee, the juniors beats senior all day long. That shite I saw between Glasgow's big two proved that point, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 St Johnstone fans boycotted their game at Hearts because of a silly row over pricing (St Johnstone insisted the gate fee be that for two SPL sides even though it was a Scottish Cup tie & Hearts response was to close the Wheatfield to reduce the gate revenue in spite). Talbot took far more fans than normal because it was a rare big game - same as Gretna somehow managed to fill one end of Hampden for the Scottish Cup final despite being two villages whose populations would have filled one row. As has been noted on here & in the LL/EoS sections, Talbot have a history for bumming up their away supports in rank & file cup matches that the attendance figures afterwards fail to correspond to. Fact remains the Juniors are pipsqueaks in the grand order - same as the HL & LL - & it's all very well talking about what you can bring to a "table" you refuse to even sit at. The Juniors are in no position any longer to dictate terms - they blew it with their obstinance two years ago - & the sooner they wise up to this fact, the better their chances of rescuing something from the mess they've now got themselves in. "the place has been refurbished" "the place has been refurbished" "the place has been refurbished" At long last, you have finally admitted that the "improvements" to Troon's antiquated set up were nothing of the kind and merely the refurbishment of what already existed. Got there in the end. So St Johnstone boycotted the fixture? But took marginally more than they did for the league game, how does that work? What about St Mirren, did they boycottt it as well? Anyway, it is irrelevant as is your comment about Talbot support being exaggerated, so is Celtic's but no one in their right mind would deny it is none the less a huge support, as is Talbot's within non league circles. My point is this, to block them and the other big supported Junior clubs from the early rounds of the Senior Cup helps no one, and is classic cutting the nose off to spite the face. By the way, I agree with you up to a point regarding integrating non league, but clubs like Rose, Talbot, Medda, Bo,ness, etc should not be wagged by the tail of LL clubs with no support and aspirations that are wholly unrealistic. Incidentally, Troon have one of the best set ups in the Juniors, superb wee ground! Credit where it's due. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monster Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 St Johnstone fans boycotted their game at Hearts because of a silly row over pricing (St Johnstone insisted the gate fee be that for two SPL sides even though it was a Scottish Cup tie & Hearts response was to close the Wheatfield to reduce the gate revenue in spite). Talbot took far more fans than normal because it was a rare big game - same as Gretna somehow managed to fill one end of Hampden for the Scottish Cup final despite being two villages whose populations would have filled one row. As has been noted on here & in the LL/EoS sections, Talbot have a history for bumming up their away supports in rank & file cup matches that the attendance figures afterwards fail to correspond to. Fact remains the Juniors are pipsqueaks in the grand order - same as the HL & LL - & it's all very well talking about what you can bring to a "table" you refuse to even sit at. The Juniors are in no position any longer to dictate terms - they blew it with their obstinance two years ago - & the sooner they wise up to this fact, the better their chances of rescuing something from the mess they've now got themselves in. "the place has been refurbished" "the place has been refurbished" "the place has been refurbished" At long last, you have finally admitted that the "improvements" to Troon's antiquated set up were nothing of the kind and merely the refurbishment of what already existed. Got there in the end. Yeah, we did. I was right, you were wrong. Thanks for admitting it. Same for the second point, which you conveniently ignored, presumably out of embarrassment, or possibly because you didn;t see it as your tinfoil hat slipped over your eyes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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