clash city rocker Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Dwindling crowds also have a lot to do with a lot more people nowadays having to work on a Saturday. Correct...5 over 7...zero hour contracts... some folk dunno what they are doing one day to the next. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omar Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Is Renfrew's new ground not on the same road ? Same road, but at least ten minutes' walk further away from the pubs in the town centre. For the bookies / boozer brigade that is too far: you can't go for a pint and gamble at half time, for instance. This will lower gates, as despite the fact that Western Park was a bit of a dump, it had one of the best covered terracings around - so gates won't be markedly improved by having better facilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clash city rocker Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Has any club moved ground and got bigger attendances ..Blackburn, Nitten, Glencairn, Petershill ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hertha_BJFC Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Has any club moved ground and got bigger attendances ..Blackburn, Nitten, Glencairn, Petershill ? I reckon their attendances have probably dwindled if anything . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 ...but is that any different from most clubs? Rob Roy might buck the trend given their new location is more central. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monster Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 I made my first ever trip to Portland Park earlier this season and was very impressed. They've done a terrific job of the clubhouse and lounge and although it was scoffed at further up the thread the lounge now gives them a means of making money outside of matchdays. And the pitch would put many senior ones to shame. Glad you liked it mate, and you're spot on - there's the occasional event held in the lounge ( for example a local guy does a pop-up restaurant) for a bit of extra income. It's a very positive club to support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peasy23 Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Glad you liked it mate, and you're spot on - there's the occasional event held in the lounge ( for example a local guy does a pop-up restaurant) for a bit of extra income. It's a very positive club to support. Didn't like the result or the weather though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTG Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 It doesn't really matter how many do or don't come through the gate. Those that do should know that the place is fit for the 21st century - especially at top level. Of course the other side of that is that you need the money the punters bring in but the alternative is to manage your decline as best you can. To be fair, plenty of teams are trying to make things better but I still think some much smaller clubs in the lowland league have done it better and more quickly than clubs with bigger reputations in the Juniors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clash city rocker Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 It doesn't really matter how many do or don't come through the gate. Those that do should know that the place is fit for the 21st century - especially at top level. Aye it does...build it and they will come we keep being told on here.No point having a state of the art place with nobody in it..like Airdrie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTG Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Aye it does...build it and they will come we keep being told on here.No point having a state of the art place with nobody in it..like Airdrie. They could have kept Broomfield like a complete fvckin shiteheap and that would have worked though eh? I've been to Airdrie umpteen times over the last few years and the place never stops. It's turning over all the time and is an excellent facility for the whole town. Like I said, just kid on it's 1955 and everything will be fine for the Juniors. Until someone puts the Closed sign up one day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loughal Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Last Saturday there were 538 watching Queen's Park at home to Elgin, 352 watching Montrose at home to Albion Rovers, 598 for Clyde at home to Arbroath - even Annan had 370 against Berwick - all on a freezing cold afternoon. Some of those involved long journeys for away fans. Some involved clubs with horrendous teams. Yet how many Junior games came close to getting the same? If those SPL3 clubs are offering a product on the field so awful - and more expensive than the Juniors at the gate - why are they pulling in the punters so many Junior sides manifestly fail to? Much as I despised the old SPL closed shop, the time will have to come sooner or later where clubs such as Talbot, Medda, Rose, Sauchie, etc will have to show some "tough love" if the SJFA prove incapable or unwilling to do so, and set up a league of their own with minimum set up requirements for entry to force clubs to improve off the field as well as on to put a stop to this never ending farrago where the "take it or leave it" brigade think they've a right to dine at the top table whilst treating the paying public like mugs. For it's either that or a slow lingering death at the hands of the Lowland League, perhaps faster as clubs quit the Juniors in despair or disgust at a grade determined to remain in a timewarp under a pretence of "traditio Last Saturday there were 538 watching Queen's Park at home to Elgin, 352 watching Montrose at home to Albion Rovers, 598 for Clyde at home to Arbroath - even Annan had 370 against Berwick - all on a freezing cold afternoon. Some of those involved long journeys for away fans. Some involved clubs with horrendous teams. Yet how many Junior games came close to getting the same? If those SPL3 clubs are offering a product on the field so awful - and more expensive than the Juniors at the gate - why are they pulling in the punters so many Junior sides manifestly fail to? "Why are THEY pulling in the punters so many junior sides manifestly fail to"? Crowds? 538...362...370, You are joking now, are you not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monster Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Didn't like the result or the weather though! I blame the SJFA for the weather - they can DO NOTHING RIGHT!!! *seethe* Result was important for us, we'll be looking for something at your place in a couple of weeks too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clash city rocker Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 They could have kept Broomfield like a complete fvckin shiteheap and that would have worked though eh? I've been to Airdrie umpteen times over the last few years and the place never stops. It's turning over all the time and is an excellent facility for the whole town. Like I said, just kid on it's 1955 and everything will be fine for the Juniors. Until someone puts the Closed sign up one day. They could have done without Broomfield and stopped themselves going feckin bankrupt. What is their average attendance ?..build it and your club will cease to exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaffenThinMint Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 I know personally that Renfrew will have smaller crowds at their new ground than they did at Western Park, simply because the new place is further out of town. Renfrew's facilities will be far better, they are going down the 'community club' route, and this will ensure their survival. Crowds can no longer be the barometer of a club's success. An indication of where the junior (or senior) club is; but not the be-all and end-all. You seem to forget in your rather cold summation of how clubs are run that on-field success is what every club strives for. Auchinleck have been a force since the mid-eighties because of their superb organisation off the park. Success on the park drives success off it, and vice versa. Good signings add to the gate: think about Robert Prytz at Pollok as a great example. Likewise, an uninspiring start to the season can put some fairweather fans off. As has been said before, neither category of supporter would be drawn by a wee stand with seats in it; instead they are held by the friendliness and warmth that many junior clubs (and junior football people) show towards a stranger who wanders in. That remains an advantage that junior football retains over the seniors. "I know personally that Renfrew will have smaller crowds at their new ground than they did at Western Park, simply because the new place is further out of town." Bilge. The new park is a mere half mile away from the old ground (an extra 2 minutes by car or 11 minute walk) in a place with excellent parking facilities right outside, something the old ground never had. Considering the number of lazy buggers that take the car these days just to get the morning papers, the smart money is on more people being inclined to turn up. "You seem to forget in your rather cold summation of how clubs are run that on-field success is what every club strives for. Auchinleck have been a force since the mid-eighties because of their superb organisation off the park. Success on the park drives success off it, and vice versa." Um, you've just parroted what I've been saying and trying to pass it off as "disagreeing" with me. Just a pity you blew the punchline - that with the Juniors far too often success on the park does not drive any success off it. All that happens is the money gets spunked on ensuring they still have the best players and nothing else. Look no further than the array of dwarf stars with sugar daddy backers Auchinleck once competed against for Junior Cup glory. Kilwinning Rangers effectively bought the SJC, Johnstone Burgh tried to buy it the following season. All that money blown and nothing but memories now to show for it. Now look at Talbot, Medda and the Rose - strong then, still strong now, because they bothered to invest off the field as well as on. Strongly build structures will last while houses of cards (primarily some sugar daddy's credit one) will always fall down. "they are held by the friendliness and warmth that many junior clubs (and junior football people) show towards a stranger who wanders in." You've never been to a Junior game in your life, have you? There's plenty of them that are about as friendly as a scrap dealer's dog, so don't come away with that dewey eyed pish. If "friendliness and warmth" was what attracted people to Junior Clubs, the grade would have died a death years ago. Crowds? 538...362...370, You are joking now, are you not? Still miles above the joke crowds of the vast majority of top tier Junior sides, so must be doing something better when they charge more than the Juniors for what is at times a poorer grade of football on offer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
energyzone Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 It doesn't really matter how many do or don't come through the gate. Those that do should know that the place is fit for the 21st century - especially at top level. Of course the other side of that is that you need the money the punters bring in but the alternative is to manage your decline as best you can. To be fair, plenty of teams are trying to make things better but I still think some much smaller clubs in the lowland league have done it better and more quickly than clubs with bigger reputations in the Juniors. How much money do these clubs get from the SPFL? It's well known junior clubs get nothing unless they get to the Scottish final. The antiquated procedures and structure need to change before people can really consider the juniors a viable alternative to senior football. I'm surprised so many clubs just accept the failings of the SJFA without question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fan of the juniors Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 If I showed you our balance sheet for the season it really would shock you It's basically league 3 costs but without the grants etc teams like Albion Rovers receive . Whatever we pay out we have to raise in to pay our way. We have no extra cash bar what we work damn hard for to get I would be all for joining a set up where the club is assured of x amount every season to progress ourselves the way certain teams can But at this time there is no such thing in place The East/West thing isn't the answer It's just Oor Tom trying to hold onto power & the Lowland league is a farce for your East Stirlings to hold onto their senior status as the teams at the top of the ll won't get near strong enough to challenge. It has to be something in the mould of what the English have but too many folk would have to bite the bullet & lose power for that to happen LADESIDE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaffenThinMint Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 If I showed you our balance sheet for the season it really would shock you It's basically league 3 costs but without the grants etc teams like Albion Rovers receive . Whatever we pay out we have to raise in to pay our way. We have no extra cash bar what we work damn hard for to get I would be all for joining a set up where the club is assured of x amount every season to progress ourselves the way certain teams can But at this time there is no such thing in place The East/West thing isn't the answer It's just Oor Tom trying to hold onto power & the Lowland league is a farce for your East Stirlings to hold onto their senior status as the teams at the top of the ll won't get near strong enough to challenge. It has to be something in the mould of what the English have but too many folk would have to bite the bullet & lose power for that to happen LADESIDE Agree with everything except your part about the Lowland League - Spartans put out Clyde and Morton and are one game away from the last 16 - you'd have to go back to the turn of the last century for the last time a non-league side managed that. Elsewhere amongst the Juniors Hurlford were only put out by Stirling Albion after maximum penalties, Bo'ness put out relegation favourites Elgin City, and even Raith Rovers admitted that only bad luck stopped them being turned over by the Rose. Little wonder the bottom of the SPL3 has turned into such a fight to the death, clubs got themselves a big wake up call this year that whoever has to take part in the play-offs will have to do a lot more than simply turn up. The Wilkins Micawber days are over for SPFL seniors of sitting at the bottom end of the bottom league, taking every bit of grant money on offer & dreaming of big draws in the Scottish Cup and League Cup to "tide them over" several seasons - now they must be worthy every season or lose their place. If they can reform, so can - indeed, so must - the Juniors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marconi Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 the reform the seniors will make is to boot the juniors out of the "big"cup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 They already tried last summer and it got voted down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaffenThinMint Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 the reform the seniors will make is to boot the juniors out of the "big"cup Which they were never entitled to be in anyway. The Seniors gave four wild card places to the Juniors as a token of good faith, and those clubs which have taken part have done very nicely out of it - in Talbot's case enough to be talking about building a second stand from the proceeds (whilst certain others which entered have simply spunked it all on players... plus ça change!). How have the Juniors repaid the Seniors for this? Refusing point blank to have anything to do with the Lowland League, and when it went ahead without them anyway they immediately talked about rushing up their own competing one. Any wonder why some have completely lost their patience with what seems like a collective of the most self centred clubs in all British football? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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