Rewilding Scotland

[Sergeant Wilson]

4 hours ago, RiG said:

This webinar might be of interest to regulars in this thread.

 

Stopped reading at webinar.

[GNU_Linux]

With the hollowed out corpse of Atari doing ok for themselves these days never say never to a return of the Lynx

[velo army]

@jamamafegan great video and congrats on getting to see such great views of the eagles.

My big concern about ecotourism is treating these creatures as a spectacle and experience rather than an important part of a larger ecosystem.

I guess my concern is people hunting them for pictures and disturbing habitats. People will do anything for Instagram pictures. It's a misanthropic take, I'll admit.

[jamamafegan]

On 13/09/2023 at 20:32, velo army said:

@jamamafegan great video and congrats on getting to see such great views of the eagles.

My big concern about ecotourism is treating these creatures as a spectacle and experience rather than an important part of a larger ecosystem.

I guess my concern is people hunting them for pictures and disturbing habitats. People will do anything for Instagram pictures. It's a misanthropic take, I'll admit.

Cheers mate.

I think education and respect is the key really. Nothing wrong at all with enjoying the experience and spectacle of wildlife as long as it's done in a respectful way. It's a great way to teach people about the role and importance of different species in their ecosystem.

You are right though, some folk will inevitably go to great lengths to look for them. There was a wildlife photographer charged earlier this year for disturbing a capercaillie lek. There was also a couple of other guys caught doing something similar, they then uploaded a bizarre apology video as if they were being held at gunpoint warning other people not to come to Scotland to seek out these birds.

I think your typical instagrammers won't go rummaging around the undergrowth off path for lynx, more likely a rogue wildlife photographer. Lynx are so secretive and stealthy that I think the majority of people would struggle to find them anyway.

[jamamafegan]

Poll edited! Since I started this topic in 2015 eurasian beaver have become a native species. There is however still a long way to go. The relocation of beaver to new catchments across Scotland is proving to be a tedious and unnecessarily long process, despite the animal being granted native status several years ago. We are of course still missing a vital cog in the ecosystem wheel - an apex predator. One can only hope that common sense prevails and lynx are reintroduced in the very near future, and hopefully with that the wolf will follow.

I tried to update the poll to add Eurasian elk in - another lost keystone species that went extinct here 2000 - 3000 yrs ago - however it doesn't seem to work. I'll maybe write a piece on here about elk or do a video about them one day.

[invergowrie arab]

On 26/08/2023 at 10:38, 101 said:

@jamamafegan would you consider doing a video on land management practices that are unsustainable.

I knew burning of heather and bracken took place but assumed it was in small areas but your video on forestry suggests it's still on a large scale which seems completely at odds with our countries commitments to biodiversity, CO2 reduction etc. 

I'm sure there are other things Lang managers do by ways of legal hunting, trapping etc to move native species off their land to protect hunting etc.

There is no need to protect hunting in the way that it is currently carried out.

Muirburn is to remove the habitats of animals that carry ticks that affect grouse and predate on ground nesting birds and their eggs. If people want to eat grouse it can be farmed in upland enclosures.

The shooting of grouse is pure and simple bloodsport and in no way comparable to the necessary culling of deer.

The grouse lobby will talk about how they create habitat  for birds like plover but wont tell you what's not there like hare, martens, stoats, raptors, snakes, lizards, bees, butterflies before you event get into the flora.

[Loonytoons]

21 hours ago, invergowrie arab said:

There is no need to protect hunting in the way that it is currently carried out.

Muirburn is to remove the habitats of animals that carry ticks that affect grouse and predate on ground nesting birds and their eggs. If people want to eat grouse it can be farmed in upland enclosures.

The shooting of grouse is pure and simple bloodsport and in no way comparable to the necessary culling of deer.

The grouse lobby will talk about how they create habitat  for birds like plover but wont tell you what's not there like hare, martens, stoats, raptors, snakes, lizards, bees, butterflies before you event get into the flora.

I always thought muirburn was to get new growth of heather as the chicks prefer the new shoots.  Just a line?

[Sergeant Wilson]

On 15/09/2023 at 05:49, jamamafegan said:

Poll edited! Since I started this topic in 2015 eurasian beaver have become a native species. There is however still a long way to go. The relocation of beaver to new catchments across Scotland is proving to be a tedious and unnecessarily long process, despite the animal being granted native status several years ago. We are of course still missing a vital cog in the ecosystem wheel - an apex predator. One can only hope that common sense prevails and lynx are reintroduced in the very near future, and hopefully with that the wolf will follow.

I tried to update the poll to add Eurasian elk in - another lost keystone species that went extinct here 2000 - 3000 yrs ago - however it doesn't seem to work. I'll maybe write a piece on here about elk or do a video about them one day.

Could we just release all the XL bullies in to the wild instead of wolves? 

[ScotiaNostra]

3 hours ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

Could we just release all the XL bullies in to the wild instead of wolves? 

if you mean their owners, you have a good idea there

[invergowrie arab]

14 hours ago, Loonytoons said:

I always thought muirburn was to get new growth of heather as the chicks prefer the new shoots.  Just a line?

Both. Its not just the muirburn, it's hare culls, weasel/stoat trapping, raptor poisoning and all the rest

[LongTimeLurker]

On 15/09/2023 at 11:49, jamamafegan said:

Poll edited! Since I started this topic in 2015 eurasian beaver have become a native species...

Guess the wild boar population that now exists can be labelled feral pigs to avoid a similar official declaration and keep the fermers happy?

[bennett]

It's always a one off incident.

 

The deaths of thousands of salmon at a controversial fish farm have been exposed by shocking drone footage.

The images of the RSPCA Assured site off Skye shows thousands of dead fish being extracted from cages for disposal.

 

The surveillance pictures of the Bakkafrost Scotland farm outlines large containers packed with lifeless salmon being offloaded on to the 73m well boat Bakkanes for removal.

Dead fish are seen floating in a cage as a live trapped salmon struggles to free itself from a net across the top.

Secret underwater filming at the same site – previously revealed by the Sunday Mail – showed horrific images of ‘zombie salmon’ swimming around, despite missing large chunks of flesh.

The firm have blamed jellyfish for the deaths, with Scottish Government inspectors being called in to investigate.

Campaigner Don Staniford said the images raise concerns over animal welfare and biosecurity at Bakkafrost Scotland’s Portree site.

Last night, he said: “Salmon farming is a welfare nightmare and must be immediately closed down to save tens of millions of fish.

“This is an estimate but, having watched events from onshore and having reviewed the footage, there is a credible argument to say we could be talking 500 tons of dead fish in this single incident. It could be over 1000.

“The images show some 30-40 tons at one moment in time and the response to whatever caused this incident took place over at least four days. The Bakkanes can transport 600 tons.

“Consumers should avoid RSPCA Assured Scottish salmon like the plague.

Bakkafrost Scotland – based in Edinburgh – was previously known as the Scottish Salmon Company before it was bought by Faroe Islands-based P/F Bakkafrost, described as the third biggest fish farming company in the world.

Iain MacIntyre, director of marine operation at Bakkafrost Scotland, admitted to an issue with its salmon and blamed jellyfish.

He said: “Salmon farming takes place in the natural environment and can face unique and difficult biological challenges, particularly when the water is warmer.

“This has been the case at Portree when, following a prolonged period of hot weather, a jelly fish bloom moved through the area. We immediately deployed additional resources and equipment to resolve the issue and the relevant authorities were notified.

“Our staff worked diligently and went above and beyond to manage a challenging set of circumstances and deal with the problems caused by the jelly fish bloom.

“This was carried out in a matter of days and the jelly fish bloom has now passed through the site and the incident-based mortality has ceased.

“Bakkafrost Scotland is committed to the welfare and health of our salmon and the natural environment. We would strongly disagree with any suggestion our team has operated in any way which challenges fish welfare and biosecurity regulations when dealing with a one-off incident of this nature

Highland Council said no one was available to comment. Defra, on behalf of APHA, referred queries to the Scottish Government

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Snobot]

@bennett it’s an absolute disaster as you know. Seems like the mainstream media is starting to take an interest though. Looking at the maps and data there is a good chance the farms in Orkney and Shetland are now wrecking the East and North Coast smolt run due to out of control lice up there so it is no longer just a west coast issue. 

It’s easy for them to pass off a percentage mortality rate but when you are talking literally millions of fish in a single farm the numbers get big quickly. And the waste in hoovering up feed fish to feed them to point of death.
 

https://www.salmonscotland.co.uk/reports/monthly-mortality-rate-june-2023

I don’t and wouldn’t eat farmed salmon and anyone with any thoughts for Scotland’s environment should consider the environmental impact of what they are eating. 

[bennett]

A few years ago Mowi released of thousands of farmed salmon into the firth of clyde,  the Ayrshire rivers were full of them. The damage that's being done just so that people can buy cheap supermarket salmon is ridiculous. 

And as @Snobot said the sea lice, pollution and the feeding of these farmed fish is devastating. 

 

 

[jamamafegan]

Yesterday the latest State of Nature Report was released - and it makes for grim reading. The main take home points:

• Nearly one in six species at risk of extinction in Great Britain

• 151 of 10,008 species assessed have already become extinct since 1500

• The species studied have, on average, declined by 19% in the UK since monitoring began in 1970

• Most of the important habitats for the UK’s nature are in poor condition

Link to the article the National Biodiversity Network article here: https://nbn.org.uk/news/state-of-nature-2023/

Link to the report here: https://stateofnature.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/TP25999-State-of-Nature-main-report_2023_FULL-DOC-v12.pdf

In what is already one of the most nature depleted countries on earth, to say this current situation is not good enough would be a massive understatement. What is unfolding in front of us is utterly tragic. Rewilding offers an obvious solution to reverse the trend. Unfortunately the Scottish Government are too feart to fully embrace rewilding whilst Westminster is simply anti-nature altogether.

In better news, according to the SGA as I can't find any links to the story, Tory MSP Edward Mountain was defeated in parliament yesterday in his attempt to prevent an open deer season on male deer. Deer are of course are huge ecological problem in Scotland, so having an open season will make it easier to reduce their numbers all year round - which will help encourage natural regeneration of woodland and protect peatlands from being eroded, ultimately boosting biodiversity. The SGA are devastated at this outcome, which is of course immensely pleasing.

[Florentine_Pogen]

On 15/09/2023 at 11:10, invergowrie arab said:

There is no need to protect hunting in the way that it is currently carried out.

Muirburn is to remove the habitats of animals that carry ticks that affect grouse and predate on ground nesting birds and their eggs. If people want to eat grouse it can be farmed in upland enclosures.

The shooting of grouse is pure and simple bloodsport and in no way comparable to the necessary culling of deer.

The grouse lobby will talk about how they create habitat  for birds like plover but wont tell you what's not there like hare, martens, stoats, raptors, snakes, lizards, bees, butterflies before you event get into the flora.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2024/jan/13/grouse-and-kestrels-on-the-wane-as-climate-crisis-hits-scottish-wildlife

[coprolite]

On 24/09/2023 at 09:47, bennett said:

It's always a one off incident.

 

The deaths of thousands of salmon at a controversial fish farm have been exposed by shocking drone footage.

The images of the RSPCA Assured site off Skye shows thousands of dead fish being extracted from cages for disposal.

 

The surveillance pictures of the Bakkafrost Scotland farm outlines large containers packed with lifeless salmon being offloaded on to the 73m well boat Bakkanes for removal.

Dead fish are seen floating in a cage as a live trapped salmon struggles to free itself from a net across the top.

Secret underwater filming at the same site – previously revealed by the Sunday Mail – showed horrific images of ‘zombie salmon’ swimming around, despite missing large chunks of flesh.

The firm have blamed jellyfish for the deaths, with Scottish Government inspectors being called in to investigate.

Campaigner Don Staniford said the images raise concerns over animal welfare and biosecurity at Bakkafrost Scotland’s Portree site.

Last night, he said: “Salmon farming is a welfare nightmare and must be immediately closed down to save tens of millions of fish.

“This is an estimate but, having watched events from onshore and having reviewed the footage, there is a credible argument to say we could be talking 500 tons of dead fish in this single incident. It could be over 1000.

“The images show some 30-40 tons at one moment in time and the response to whatever caused this incident took place over at least four days. The Bakkanes can transport 600 tons.

“Consumers should avoid RSPCA Assured Scottish salmon like the plague.

Bakkafrost Scotland – based in Edinburgh – was previously known as the Scottish Salmon Company before it was bought by Faroe Islands-based P/F Bakkafrost, described as the third biggest fish farming company in the world.

Iain MacIntyre, director of marine operation at Bakkafrost Scotland, admitted to an issue with its salmon and blamed jellyfish.

He said: “Salmon farming takes place in the natural environment and can face unique and difficult biological challenges, particularly when the water is warmer.

“This has been the case at Portree when, following a prolonged period of hot weather, a jelly fish bloom moved through the area. We immediately deployed additional resources and equipment to resolve the issue and the relevant authorities were notified.

“Our staff worked diligently and went above and beyond to manage a challenging set of circumstances and deal with the problems caused by the jelly fish bloom.

“This was carried out in a matter of days and the jelly fish bloom has now passed through the site and the incident-based mortality has ceased.

“Bakkafrost Scotland is committed to the welfare and health of our salmon and the natural environment. We would strongly disagree with any suggestion our team has operated in any way which challenges fish welfare and biosecurity regulations when dealing with a one-off incident of this nature

Highland Council said no one was available to comment. Defra, on behalf of APHA, referred queries to the Scottish Government

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

On 24/09/2023 at 11:41, Snobot said:

@bennett it’s an absolute disaster as you know. Seems like the mainstream media is starting to take an interest though. Looking at the maps and data there is a good chance the farms in Orkney and Shetland are now wrecking the East and North Coast smolt run due to out of control lice up there so it is no longer just a west coast issue. 

It’s easy for them to pass off a percentage mortality rate but when you are talking literally millions of fish in a single farm the numbers get big quickly. And the waste in hoovering up feed fish to feed them to point of death.
 

https://www.salmonscotland.co.uk/reports/monthly-mortality-rate-june-2023

I don’t and wouldn’t eat farmed salmon and anyone with any thoughts for Scotland’s environment should consider the environmental impact of what they are eating. 

Calling for Salmon farming to be banned is stupid. 

Unless we're going to mandate veganism, there will be environmental impacts from farming animals for food. 

One substitute for farmed salmon is land based animal protein. Banned salmon production would increase pollution from that. 

Another substitute is harvesting wild fish. We all know how good that is for the marine environment. 

Change to some of the more harmful practices: limiting intensity and scale, better location, less chemicals etc is what is needed. 

[bennett]

1 hour ago, coprolite said:

 

Calling for Salmon farming to be banned is stupid. 

Unless we're going to mandate veganism, there will be environmental impacts from farming animals for food. 

One substitute for farmed salmon is land based animal protein. Banned salmon production would increase pollution from that. 

Another substitute is harvesting wild fish. We all know how good that is for the marine environment. 

Change to some of the more harmful practices: limiting intensity and scale, better location, less chemicals etc is what is needed. 

 

Salmon farming is wiping out wild salmon and sea trout stocks through pollution,  sea lice and escapees breeding with wild salmon. The huge quantities of wild fish which are harvested to feed farmed salmon is astronomical, fish farming in coastal waters is devastating our environment. 

But because it's underwater and they're not cute fluffy animals then it's out of sight of mind.

Companies like Mowi will just pay lip service to concerns and continue to provide cheap salmon for supermarkets. 

 

 

[coprolite]

51 minutes ago, bennett said:

 

Salmon farming is wiping out wild salmon and sea trout stocks through pollution,  sea lice and escapees breeding with wild salmon. The huge quantities of wild fish which are harvested to feed farmed salmon is astronomical, fish farming in coastal waters is devastating our environment. 

But because it's underwater and they're not cute fluffy animals then it's out of sight of mind.

Companies like Mowi will just pay lip service to concerns and continue to provide cheap salmon for supermarkets. 

 

 

I'm not doubting the diagnosis although some of the language is a bit hyperbolic there. 

I'm saying that the remedy should be to change how it's done, not to stop it entirely. 

Not all of those things need to be true of Salmon farming. 

Not all of those things are exclusive to Salmon farming. 

 

[Snobot]

3 hours ago, coprolite said:

Change to some of the more harmful practices: limiting intensity and scale, better location, less chemicals etc is what is needed. 

The industry has zero interest or will to do so, hence why it needs to be exposed for what it currently is. I didn’t suggest it can be banned. In an ideal world, it wouldn’t exist or have to exist but it does. It was set up to relieve pressure on wild stocks when they were relatively healthy and has been a major contributor to their collapse. It provides employment. Sadly though, the industry does not give a damn about the current damage they are causing, nor the eye-watering mortality rates.

I make a personal choice to avoid it and if this is replicated due to better awareness then the ultimate conclusion would be drop in demand but again, not likely to happen.

What will ultimately do for them is rising sea temperatures making most of their existing locations completely unsustainable as mortalities will reach a tipping point due to algal blooms, micro jellyfish swarms, lice etc.

It can be done in better harmony with the environment but one of the last small companies to do so was acquired by Mowi last year and they are currently trying to rip up all the things which worked in the most disingenuous way possible (gaming the planning system) to give us an unwanted automated (cutting existing jobs in the process) cess pit in a sheltered loch.

3 hours ago, coprolite said:

One substitute for farmed salmon is land based animal protein. Banned salmon production would increase pollution from that. 

The difference is land based agriculture doesn’t and wouldn’t get away with dumping 100% of their waste untreated directly into the environment whilst about half of their livestock was lying dead in the fields. 
 

3 hours ago, coprolite said:

Another substitute is harvesting wild fish. We all know how good that is for the marine environment. 

They already harvest huge amounts of food fish from eg West Africa, diminishing local resources for local fisherman, in order to turn it into pellets to feed it to salmon, a huge number of which will die in production thus wasting the resource. The feed also contains oils from farmed Atlantic Salmon, as if feeding livestock back to themselves has a glowing back history.

They also harvest wild wrasse in huge numbers all over the UK coast, use them as cleaner fish and liquidate them at the end of the 2 year production cycle. What other industry would get away with doing that to a wild animal to support their unsustainable practices?

They are like big tobacco and would deny any negative impact to their final breath.

Bringing it ashore would help but I don’t know if the numbers add up. Having said that, there is a massive on shore facility planned at Cleethorpes. If it gets them out of our inner lochs and near our rivers then great, but it won’t. It’ll be in addition to these.

I don’t think anything Bennet is saying is off the mark tbh. It’s an environmental catastrophe in its current guise but the industry will have to be dragged kicking and screaming to even make the slightest beneficial change. 
 

Mowi and Bakkafrost have launched SLAPPs (Strategic Lawsuits Against Public Participation) to prevent one of the higher-profile activists (Don Staniford) approaching within 15 metres, or flying drones over their farms (in publicly owned waters no less) because he continually and covertly exposes malpractice. Nothing screams “nothing to see here gov’ner” like multinationals taking out interdicts against citizen activism.

As you might have gathered, it makes my blood boil.