flyingrodent Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 Nobody has ever said the SNP are socialists. You need to see a doctor. Have you heard of a straw-man argument? The SNP have always been centrist social democrats and still are, the rest you are making up. As for Labour they used to be left-wing now they're centre-right. They have moved, the SNP haven't. Give it up Jim nobody's going to vote for you in May. The SNP's leftward lurch is common knowledge within the party itself but screw it - I'll gladly settle for you saying that the SNP are centrist social democrats and not socialists. That's going to come as a surprise to some of your new members, I suspect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuzzyAffro Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 Okay whatever then. Educate yourself a bit here btw, Tartan Tories my arse Party ideology[edit]The SNP's policy base is mostly in the mainstream European social democratic tradition. Among its policies are commitments to same-sex marriage, reducing thevoting age to 16, unilateral nuclear disarmament, progressive personal taxation, the eradication of poverty, the building of affordable social housing, free higher education, opposition to the building of new nuclear power plants, investment in renewable energy, the abolition of Air Passenger Duty, and a pay increase for nurses.[31][32] The Scottish National Party did not have a clear ideological position until the 1970s, when it sought to explicitly present itself as a social democratic party in terms of party policy and publicity.[33][34] During the period from its foundation until the 1960s, the SNP was essentially a moderate centrist party.[33] Debate within the party focused more on the SNP being distinct as an all-Scotland national movement, with it being neither of the left or the right, but constituting a new politics that sought to put Scotland first.[34][35] The SNP was formed through the merger of the centre-left National Party of Scotland (NPS) and the centre-right Scottish Party.[34] The SNP’s founders were united over self-determination in principle, though not its exact nature, or the best strategic means to achieve self-government. From the mid-1940s onwards, SNP policy was radical and redistributionist in relation to land and in favour of ‘the diffusion of economic power’, including the decentralization of industries such as coal to include the involvement of local authorities and regional planning bodies to control industrial structure and development.[33] Party policies supported the economic and social policy status quo of the post-war welfare state.[33][36] By the 1960s, the SNP was starting to become defined ideologically, with a social democratic tradition emerging as the party grew in urban, industrial Scotland, and its membership experienced an influx of social democrats from the Labour Party, the trade unions and the Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament.[35][37] The emergence of Billy Wolfe as a leading figure in the SNP also contributed to this movement to the left. By this period, the Labour Party were also the dominant party in Scotland, in terms of electoral support and representation. Targeting Labour through emphasising left-of-centre policies and values was therefore electorally logical for the SNP, as well as tying in with the ideological preferences of many new party members.[37] In 1961 the SNP conference expressed the party’s opposition to the siting of theUS Polaris submarine base at the Holy Loch. This policy was followed in 1963 by a motion opposed to nuclear weapons: a policy that has remained in place ever since.[37] The 1964 policy document, SNP & You, contained a clear centre-left policy platform, including commitments to full employment, government intervention in fuel, power and transport, a state bank to guide economic development, encouragement of cooperatives and credit unions, extensive building of council houses by central and local government, pensions adjusted to cost of living, a minimum wage and an improved national health service.[33] The ‘60s also saw the beginnings of the SNP’s efforts to establish an industrial organisation and mobilise amongst trade unionists in Scotland, with the establishment of the SNP Trade Union Group, and identifying the SNP with industrial campaigns, such as the Upper-Clyde Shipbuilders Work-in and the attempt of the workers at the Scottish Daily Express to run as a cooperative.[33] For the party manifestos for the two 1974 general elections, the SNP finally self-identified as a social democratic party, and proposed a range of social democratic policies.[35][36] There was also an unsuccessful proposal at the 1975 party conference to rename the party as the Scottish National Party (Social Democrats).[16] There were further ideological and internal struggles after 1979 with the 79 Group attempting to move the SNP further to the left, away from being what could be described a "social-democratic" party, to an expressly "socialist" party. Members of the 79 Group - including future party leader and First Minister Alex Salmond - were expelled from the party. This produced a response in the shape of the Campaign for Nationalism in Scotland from those who wanted the SNP to remain a "broad church", apart from arguments of left vs. right. The 1980s saw the SNP further define itself as a party of the political left, such as campaigning against the poll tax.[33] The ideological tensions inside the SNP are further complicated by the arguments between the so-called SNP gradualists and SNP fundamentalists. In essence, gradualists seek to advance Scotland to independence through further devolution, in a "step-by-step" strategy. They tend to be in the moderate left grouping, although much of the 79 Group was gradualist in approach. However, this 79 Group gradualism was as much a reaction against the fundamentalists of the day, many of whom believed the SNP should not take a clear left or right position.[33] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SodjesSixteenIncher Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 Yeah but she has a coffee machine. You're not allowed to have a coffee machine if you're a politician m8. Home brand instant until the revolution is won, comrade! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 Home brand instant until the revolution is won, comrade! It's like the old story of the capitalist who says to the socialist "You don't think there should be any First Class coaches on a train, do you?" To which the socialist replies "On the contrary, I think we should all travel First Class". Personally, I want to see everyone in Scotland have the ability to afford an expensive coffee making machine if they want one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebbes20silkcut Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 Vote for Labour, I'd rather shite my hands and clap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I'm Brian Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 It's like the old story of the capitalist who says to the socialist "You don't think there should be any First Class coaches on a train, do you?" To which the socialist replies "On the contrary, I think we should all travel First Class". Personally, I want to see everyone in Scotland have the ability to afford an expensive coffee making machine if they want one. You've got my vote. I love coffee. Vote for Granny's Expensive Expresso Party Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milhouse Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 The glaringly obvious lying by Blair as the UK headed to war with Iraq, then final nail for me was Gordon Brown prowling about the podium the week before the referendum "Let us tell the Nationalists that these are our streets!" Grotesque display of self-interest. Absolutely despise that man now, and could never envisage myself voting Labour again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUFC90 Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 Yes, look, Nicola Sturgeon gets paid more than David Cameron does. http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/mar/18/scottish-parliament-votes-pay-rise-msps-nicola-sturgeon Half of that salary - £144,687 - is still over £72,000 per year. Can I suggest to you that perhaps Nicola's charity donation, admirable as it is, is at least partially a public relations exercise? That is, is it possible that it's done so that people on forums like this can get up on their high horse and be all like, "Nicola Sturgeon gives half her wage to charity unlike that shit Jim Murphy" etc? I'd say that it's worth considering. And your point is because she gets paid more it doesn't matter ? The scumbag MPs you are comparing her to are loaded out the arse and claim everything going, including their salary. Millionaire Lords cashing £300 quid cheques to turn up to a debate for half an hour. Yep, terrible giving half her salary to charity. Fucking hell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUFC90 Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 The SNP's leftward lurch is common knowledge within the party itself but screw it - I'll gladly settle for you saying that the SNP are centrist social democrats and not socialists. That's going to come as a surprise to some of your new members, I suspect. Uhm.... NAW. They are social democrats and we all know that. Hell of a lot better than right wing, capitalist, f**k nuggets from London. I'm left leaning but understand the need for right wing economic policies. That's how a country should be run and the best chance of getting it was by voting yes last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
git-intae-thum Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 Uhm.... NAW. They are social democrats and we all know that. Hell of a lot better than right wing, capitalist, f**k nuggets from London. I'm left leaning but understand the need for right wing economic policies. That's how a country should be run and the best chance of getting it was by voting yes last year. Amen. How many now and in the future are comimg to realise that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingrodent Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 And your point is because she gets paid more it doesn't matter ? The scumbag MPs you are comparing her to are loaded out the arse and claim everything going, including their salary. Millionaire Lords cashing £300 quid cheques to turn up to a debate for half an hour. Yep, terrible giving half her salary to charity. Fucking hell It's not that hard. I'm telling you that your favoured politicians are politicians just like the other parties' politicians are politicians, and that your favoured politicians do things for political reasons in much the same manner that other parties' politicians do things for political reasons. You seem to be having trouble grasping this, and I'm fairly sure I know why that is. I know it's hard to understand why Zayn left the band yo, but he had his motives. You need to get over that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUFC90 Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 I didn't know about it myself and wouldn't have done, if it hadn't been pointed out to me as an example of how Nicola Sturgeon is supposedly radically different to politicians from other parties. But seriously - she's been fighting elections for twenty years and has been in power for eight years, for God's sake. I actually quite like her but it's surely not controversial to suggest that Nicola Sturgeon, a professional politician and First Minister of Scotland, is a politician who calculates how to behave to maximise her political gain, just like they all do. Oh right, all you were saying was that Sturgeon and the SNP are politicians and like all politicians they want your vote. Fair enough. I agree. You just can't compare Scottish MSPs to Westminster ones. I even like the leader of the Tories in Scotland and most of them seem fairly normal. Contrast that with the Westminster robots who have fingers in all the pies and there really isn't any question that Westminster is stocked full of thundercunts and now that another party may start pissing on the 2 party love in they start throwing their toys out the pram. Until the current SNP crop totally f**k up and go against all their principles, I won't except that they're the same as the IDS and Margaret Currans of this world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUFC90 Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 It's not that hard. I'm telling you that your favoured politicians are politicians just like the other parties' politicians are politicians, and that your favoured politicians do things for political reasons in much the same manner that other parties' politicians do things for political reasons. You seem to be having trouble grasping this, and I'm fairly sure I know why that is. I know it's hard to understand why Zayn left the band yo, but he had his motives. You need to get over that. No. You said they're all the same. I'm saying they're not. It's really that simple. Goodnight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUFC90 Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 Amen. How many now and in the future are comimg to realise that. More and more everyday and the ones who wouldn't even consider it are pensioners anyway. I'll see it before I'm 40. Totally convinced of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingrodent Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 And your point is because she gets paid more it doesn't matter ? The scumbag MPs you are comparing her to are loaded out the arse and claim everything going, including their salary. Millionaire Lords cashing £300 quid cheques to turn up to a debate for half an hour. Yep, terrible giving half her salary to charity. Fucking hell She's a politician who deals in merciless political calculus, without giving the merriest fvck what's helpful to her constituents, much as every other politician who weighs issues bases it on profit and loss, exactly the same as Nigel Farage or Ed Miliband. If you think otherwise, I have a bridge that you can buy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
git-intae-thum Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 She's a politician who deals in merciless political calculus, without giving the merriest fvck what's helpful to her constituents, much as every other politician who weighs issues bases it on profit and loss, exactly the same as Nigel Farage or Ed Miliband. If you think otherwise, I have a bridge that you can buy. Blah blah blah. You are bad but no quite as bad as us kind of post. Ffs gie up the ghost ya sheep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fotbawmad Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 Yes, look, Nicola Sturgeon gets paid more than David Cameron does. http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/mar/18/scottish-parliament-votes-pay-rise-msps-nicola-sturgeon Half of that salary - £144,687 - is still over £72,000 per year. Can I suggest to you that perhaps Nicola's charity donation, admirable as it is, is at least partially a public relations exercise? That is, is it possible that it's done so that people on forums like this can get up on their high horse and be all like, "Nicola Sturgeon gives half her wage to charity unlike that shit Jim Murphy" etc? I'd say that it's worth considering. I'd be willing to bet it's to do with tax reasons. Would you rather a large portion of your taxes to charity or give it to the treasury? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingrodent Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 Zombies. Braindead, mouth-drooling zombies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grim O'Grady Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 I'm voting SNP in the hope that we get an alternative voice at Westminster. Labour need to learn to represent the people of labour not the banking wankers that got us in to this austerity crisis, how about making them pay for it? Simples. Grimbo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaz Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 Yeah that's right. All politicians are the same. The politicians in Switzerland are the same as the politicians in Iraq. That is why they behave in exactly the same way and make exactly the same decisions leading to all countries and societies being exactly the same. It's always No voting Labour drone types who come out with this bollocks. And I always ask the same question. If they're all the same, why not just vote Yes then? At least that way you've got a little more control over them and can potentially vote them out if they don't behave in a manner you approve of. Pathetic, servile, self - loathing brit nats who don't want their politicians to be accountable. They're all the same! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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