chimneyman Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 If sturgeon does not get extra powers over and above what the smith comission agreed to she may well use that as her reason to push for another vote. It's not Sturgeon getting extra powers, it's the Scottish Parliament. Jesus fucking Christ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 Over the last week I have tried to convince myself that Labour's problems in the UK were not as bad as they appeared. A 3% or 4% swing back in the next election could bring them back into parity with the Tories. . However they are not only bereft of any decent leadership but also of ideas and direction. That could easily spell a further two terms after this one with outright Tory majorities. . The only solution for Scotland is Independence. A further Referendum is essential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandarilla Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 Over the last week I have tried to convince myself that Labour's problems in the UK were not as bad as they appeared. A 3% or 4% swing back in the next election could bring them back into parity with the Tories..However they are not only bereft of any decent leadership but also of ideas and direction. That could easily spell a further two terms after this one with outright Tory majorities..The only solution for Scotland is Independence. A further Referendum is essential. I think the biggest factor determining whether labour return to govt is the success or failure of this tory govt. Events, dear boy. If the Tories keep an even keel and get a few if their polices through successfully, avoid an eu exit, and keep the country out of any wars then labour will really struggle. But govts can unravel very quickly, and suddenly the alternative will start to seem more appealing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 I think the biggest factor determining whether labour return to govt is the success or failure of this tory govt. Events, dear boy. If the Tories keep an even keel and get a few if their polices through successfully, avoid an eu exit, and keep the country out of any wars then labour will really struggle. But govts can unravel very quickly, and suddenly the alternative will start to seem more appealing. This government will be more divisive than any before. They will simply seek to keep the 40% of Tory voters in England onside; that's all they need to do. Whilst doing that they will further privatise the NHS in England and Wales, make further cuts in Social Services budgets throughout the UK and give carefully targeted tax incentives to their core supporters. We will see a level of cuts to living standards and public services far worse than anything before and the poor, disabled and sick will suffer the brunt. Sturgeon's pre-election predictions about child poverty will be proven correct and an even greater gulf will appear in our society with those children born into poverty having even less chance of escaping it in their adult lives. The 'let's wait and see' approach is one I find difficult to subscribe to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevthedee Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 It's not Sturgeon getting extra powers, it's the Scottish Parliament. Jesus fucking Christ. Think you know fine well what i ment but good try at being a dick anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandarilla Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 This government will be more divisive than any before. They will simply seek to keep the 40% of Tory voters in England onside; that's all they need to do. Whilst doing that they will further privatise the NHS in England and Wales, make further cuts in Social Services budgets throughout the UK and give carefully targeted tax incentives to their core supporters.We will see a level of cuts to living standards and public services far worse than anything before and the poor, disabled and sick will suffer the brunt. Sturgeon's pre-election predictions about child poverty will be proven correct and an even greater gulf will appear in our society with those children born into poverty having even less chance of escaping it in their adult lives.The 'let's wait and see' approach is one I find difficult to subscribe to. I'm not suggesting wait and see. I'd love to see labour grow some balls and proper move to the left (and not do it by stealth like ed was trying). But that simply won't happen as England (especially the south) has moved too far to the right for this. So labour will now rely on the personality of a leader and the effectiveness of a mandelson character to get that message crafted. But keeping middle England happy is not as easy as you suggest. They can only stomach so much of the cuts, and that's a fine balance. They also need to keep the economy (the false economy, based on property and banking mainly) going. If that falters then the wheels will start to come off. There's also Europe, general international strife, and the tories natural fetish for sleeze - all to be handled with care. Labour's best hope imo is the tories to f**k it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparky88 Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 Could they not put a possible scenario in their manifesto which would trigger another referendum? For example: should the EU referendum result in Scotland being withdrawn against its will in 2017? That would appease many members and be the smart move. Another referendum so soon, just for the sake of it, would be a bit pointless and likely lose again. that would be another referendum then, a referendum that people in England could vote on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 I'm not suggesting wait and see. I'd love to see labour grow some balls and proper move to the left (and not do it by stealth like ed was trying). But that simply won't happen as England (especially the south) has moved too far to the right for this. So labour will now rely on the personality of a leader and the effectiveness of a mandelson character to get that message crafted. But keeping middle England happy is not as easy as you suggest. They can only stomach so much of the cuts, and that's a fine balance. They also need to keep the economy (the false economy, based on property and banking mainly) going. If that falters then the wheels will start to come off. There's also Europe, general international strife, and the tories natural fetish for sleeze - all to be handled with care. Labour's best hope imo is the tories to f**k it up. I agree with your last sentence but it's a big gamble. I said earlier this would be the most divisive government ever; I include the Thatcher one. I lived through Thatcher, she was an idealogue. Cameron is worse, he's a pragmatist. He will exploit the divisions that Thatcher created and will keep onside just enough with his core support to conflict greater pain and suffering to those least equipped to deal with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 http://m.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/scottish-independence-within-next-decade-poll-1-3775405 Once again the comments section is comedy gold. Seething BritNats right enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevthedee Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/nicola-sturgeon/11611249/Nicola-Sturgeon-tells-David-Cameron-Second-referendum-would-be-your-fault.html Claws out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkoRaj Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/nicola-sturgeon/11611249/Nicola-Sturgeon-tells-David-Cameron-Second-referendum-would-be-your-fault.html Claws out. There is literally nothing to that article at all. Can you explain why you have linked it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevthedee Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 There is literally nothing to that article at all. Can you explain why you have linked it? This story is about another referendum,which is what this topic is all about,thats why i linked it,people can make up their own minds on the story and if the information is accurate or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkoRaj Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 This story is about another referendum,which is what this topic is all about,thats why i linked it,people can make up their own minds on the story and if the information is accurate or not. It's not even a story. There are no quotes that come anywhere near what the headline says Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crùbag Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 This story is about another referendum,which is what this topic is all about,thats why i linked it,people can make up their own minds on the story and if the information is accurate or not. Can't be bothered frying my brain trying to de-code your gibberish here but in terms of a referendum, I reckon that Dave's antics in London will see another soon, possibly in the SNP manifesto for Holyrood '16. If the Tories in London continue to 'take the rope' then there's every chance that the SNP will win another landslide in Edinburgh, especially if it's dependent on there not being a 'stay in' clause for the other UK nations in the EU referendum. Like I said days ago, momentum is with the pro-Indy camp. As things stand, there will be no strong Labour Party - maybe just one that's bitterly divided - in Scotland, or England, to offer a 'defence' of the Union next time. Here's a poll for ye an aw... http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/scottish-politics/poll-majority-in-both-scotland-and-england-believe-independence-will-happ.1431875117 Poll: Majority in Scotland and England believe independence will happen within 10 years Sunday 17 May 2015 A majority of people across the UK believe that Scotland will be independent within the next decade, a poll suggests. Just over half (52%) of people in Scotland and nearly three-fifths (59%) of people in England think the UK will split by 2025, a Survation poll for think tank British Future found. Nearly three quarters (73%) of Scots think the new UK government needs to hand more powers to the nations and regions, but nearly half of people in England (48%) say Scotland should not be offered any more powers, according to the poll of 3,977 UK adults including 1,056 in Scotland between May 8-14. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shiltrum Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 It's not Sturgeon getting extra powers, it's the Scottish Parliament. Jesus fucking Christ. LANGUAGE big man Language!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin_Nevis Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 This story is about another referendum,which is what this topic is all about,thats why i linked it,people can make up their own minds on the story and if the information is accurate or not. A major clue would be that it's in the Daily Telegraph for a start. Secondly, use of the phrase "sources close to..." are a virtually direct translation of "made up by journalist" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fide Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/nicola-sturgeon/11611249/Nicola-Sturgeon-tells-David-Cameron-Second-referendum-would-be-your-fault.html Claws out. Are you capable of linking to anything other than rabid servile Britnat newspapers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuzzyAffro Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 Are you capable of linking to anything other than rabid servile Britnat newspapers? No, cause that's all he reads. Hence his nonsensical views. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevthedee Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 Are you capable of linking to anything other than rabid servile Britnat newspapers? http://www.thenational.scot/politics/david-cameron-lets-talk-about-new-powers-for-scotland-later.3022 Not much to pick from other than the national and scottish sun,all the other papers have a vandetta against the snp,so everything they print is complete lies,or maybe peoples blind hatred of anyone who dares question the snp makes them just think that its all lies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 It now looks certain that most European non UK nationals who live in the UK and contribute to the UK economy will be precluded from voting in the upcoming EU referendum. Does that give us justification for precluding any non-Scottish born people from voting in a future Independence referendum? I would not have countenanced this in the past and actually argued against those who said that those born in rUK should be excluded from voting; but times have changed. Not only do we now have a majority Tory government in Westminster that Scotland totally rejected but this same government is making up the rules as it goes along on franchises for voting. Maybe the end justifies the means and we should be as manipulative in achieving our objectives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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