SodjesSixteenIncher Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 if the UK can't run itself, how can Scotland ? Whit ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Kincardine Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 This in/out referendum is about the most stupid notion ever from a British PM (and my God have their been some bad ones). Absolutely no one has any appetite for it aside from a sprinkling of crusty xenophobes This was knee-jerk politics at its worst from DC and has consigned us to a 2-year debate that no one with half a brain wants to have and where the outcome is known already. The best thing is for him to show some cajones and say he has changed his mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee Willie Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 This in/out referendum is about the most stupid notion ever from a British PM (and my God have their been some bad ones). Absolutely no one has any appetite for it aside from a sprinkling of crusty xenophobes This was knee-jerk politics at its worst from DC and has consigned us to a 2-year debate that no one with half a brain wants to have. The best thing is for him to show some cajones and say he has changed his mind. and that would mean another general election Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Kincardine Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 and that would mean another general election Aye because every time a PM changes a manifesto pledge it results in a GE. I hope for an outbreak of common sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fotbawmad Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 It will be a sad and worrying day if a vote to leave the EU is cast. The future needs to be about closeness and unity amongst countries/people's or the same old historical problems will eventually raise their head as they have again and again That's another way for saying we need consolidated power at the top. That historically only benefits the oligarchic elements of our society. It ridiculous to make out that Europe would descend into a hellhole of fascistic style nationalism if the EU didn't exist. The biggest problems I have with the EU is that it's highly inflexible and has a one size fits all approach. When the reality is there is too many regional and cultural differences for it to ever work. These anti-EU parties should't be dismissed as just some "far-right" elements, but reactionary to what has been going on over the last few decades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 Not a chance it will. Seems like Cameron wants us to stay and he wants the decision made quickly. Be interesting to see if Ministers are allowed to vote and campaign freely, no doubt some of them want to leave. Yeah that's my thinking too, but there's many who seem to think that the Tory government offering a referendum is the same as them supporting one. The issue of Ministers having free reign will be interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AberdeenBud Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 This in/out referendum is about the most stupid notion ever from a British PM (and my God have their been some bad ones). Absolutely no one has any appetite for it aside from a sprinkling of crusty xenophobes This was knee-jerk politics at its worst from DC and has consigned us to a 2-year debate that no one with half a brain wants to have and where the outcome is known already. The best thing is for him to show some cajones and say he has changed his mind. Aye because every time a PM changes a manifesto pledge it results in a GE. I hope for an outbreak of common sense. That "sprinkling of crusty xenophobes" includes a sizeable section of the parliamentary Tory party who absolutely will not stand for Dave reneging on his promise to hold a referendum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SodjesSixteenIncher Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/8112935e-e2ca-11e4-bf4b-00144feab7de.html#axzz3a2jmGIPa Leaving the EU has more support than the Tories do. Turning around now and refusing a referendum would be absolute suicide for Cameron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee Willie Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 Aye because every time a PM changes a manifesto pledge it results in a GE. I hope for an outbreak of common sense. We're no talking about any auld pledge here. It's the EU referendum and if Cameron wants the support of his backbenchers then he better support a referendum. I too hope for an outbreak of common sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim McLean's Ghost Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 Did no one see what happened when the lib dems went back on a key campaign promise. This isn't a five year rail fare freeze or 30 hours free childcare. This was a major promise of the campaign, Cameron must follow through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowmore Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 That's another way for saying we need consolidated power at the top. That historically only benefits the oligarchic elements of our society. It ridiculous to make out that Europe would descend into a hellhole of fascistic style nationalism if the EU didn't exist. The biggest problems I have with the EU is that it's highly inflexible and has a one size fits all approach. When the reality is there is too many regional and cultural differences for it to ever work. These anti-EU parties should't be dismissed as just some "far-right" elements, but reactionary to what has been going on over the last few decades. The historical roots of the European Union lie in the Second World War. Europeans are determined to prevent such killing and destruction ever happening again. Soon after the war, Europe is split into East and West as the 40-year-long Cold War begins. West European nations create the Council of Europe in 1949. It is a first step towards cooperation between them, but six countries want to go further. 9 May 1950 — French Foreign Minister Robert Schuman presents a plan for deeper cooperation. Later, every 9 May is celebrated as 'Europe Day'. 18 April 1951 Based on the Schuman plan, six countries sign a treaty to run their heavy industries – coal and steel – under a common management. In this way, none can on its own make the weapons of war to turn against the other, as in the past. The six are Germany, France, Italy, the Netherlands, Belgium and Luxembourg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowmore Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 http://europa.eu/about-eu/eu-history/1945-1959/index_en.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Kincardine Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/8112935e-e2ca-11e4-bf4b-00144feab7de.html#axzz3a2jmGIPa Leaving the EU has more support than the Tories do. Turning around now and refusing a referendum would be absolute suicide for Cameron. Old news. The Brexit has as much credence as Stuart McCall and Pep Guardiola doing a job-swap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Psychosis Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 Part of me is wondering if Cameron thought that he'd be, at best, in another coalition with the Lib Dems and as such could have used them as a lever for dropping it. Regardless, its going to be a bit weird for those of us who see ourselves as fairly progressive and left wing having to cosy up to the financial service industry and big businesses. Those guys are going to need to be our best friends for us to ensure that we stay in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Kincardine Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 We're no talking about any auld pledge here. It's the EU referendum and if Cameron wants the support of his backbenchers then he better support a referendum. I too hope for an outbreak of common sense. I see your point, of course and he may face a 'confidence motion' but he'd get much more kudos for saying, "Aye I was shiting myself that time and said something I didn't mean'. Funnily enough.....I'd wager most folk on here wanting to see the referendum followed through want to stay in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SodjesSixteenIncher Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 It's not that I particularly want to see it. It's more the claim that going back on it would be "the best thing for him (Cameron)" that I'm disagreeing with. Starting to think I've been whooshed here because it so obviously isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee Willie Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 I see your point, of course and he may face a 'confidence motion' but he'd get much more kudos for saying, "Aye I was shiting myself that time and said something I didn't mean'. Funnily enough.....I'd wager most folk on here wanting to see the referendum followed through want to stay in. Kudos from whom? As I've already said he needs tae keep his backbenchers sweet and getting kudos frae others isnae gonna keep them in line. You are probably correct in that last sentence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lambies Doos Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 Snp campaign purely in Scotland for Scotland. Point out the benefits Europe is to Scotland. Might even strengthen the independence debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lambies Doos Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 Snp campaign purely in Scotland for Scotland. Point out the benefits Europe is to Scotland. Might even strengthen the independence debate. Actually, SNP could get some high power Europe type to say that an independent Scotland would waltz into EU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lambies Doos Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 Actually, SNP could get some high power Europe type to say that an independent Scotland would waltz into EU.Make the campaign about Scotland being in Europe rather than UK. Win win. Im sure this is what Salmond is thinking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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