FuzzyAffro Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Brown scaring pensioners and telling blatant lies to them. Lets remind ourselves their pensions were literally guaranteed by the UK pensions minister at the start of the process before watching this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee Willie Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 really? What a fucking w****r. Aye it's true. I cannae mind much about it. He was PM at the time. It was either in a newspaper or on radio that I heard it. I was gonna call the labour voters stupid c**ts but I then remembered most of them voted SNP last week Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 One thing is patently obvious, the Labour Party has absolutely no principles. A political party must stand for something, the minute it adapts it's policies in order to get elected then it is an empty vassal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MassiveFanDan Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 One thing is patently obvious, the Labour Party has absolutely no principles. A political party must stand for something, the minute it adapts it's policies in order to get elected then it is an empty vassal. That may have been a typo, but it sums up Slab's real problem. Johann Lamont having to wait a year-and-a-half for the nod that she could officially oppose the Bedroom Tax in Scotland... Jum being skelpt by Chukka Umunna live on telly... Empty vassals right enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crùbag Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 'From an early age my memories are of my parents talking about politics and the need for working people to organise and fight for a better and fairer society and that is why I joined the Labour Party' This is the party of 'Lord' Jack McConnell and 'Lord' Michael Martin two stalwarts of the working class. Aye, right. Wait still Chukka Ummuma takes control. Another posho who wants to move the party to the right?! He might win back some of middle-England - if they can get over their racism - but will lose Scotland even more at Holyrood. Bring it on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 This is a bit of a weird rhetoric. Why can't people just say it was because Labour were backing a No vote? Or would they have been okay if there was a separate Labour for No campaign, independent of BT and the Tories?Lots of Labour-supporting No voters will have been angry at Labour siding with the enemy. Labour should have ran a separate campaign. Darling and Miliband standing next to Davidson and Cameron? No wonder people can't tell them apart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 That may have been a typo, but it sums up Slab's real problem. Johann Lamont having to wait a year-and-a-half for the nod that she could officially oppose the Bedroom Tax in Scotland... Jum being skelpt by Chukka Umunna live on telly... Empty vassals right enough. Actually it wasn't a typo it was a play on words. Wait still Chukka Ummuma takes control. Another posho who wants to move the party to the right?! He might win back some of middle-England - if they can get over their racism - but will lose Scotland even more at Holyrood. Bring it on. Chuka Umunna is exactly what Labour in England needs, which just shows how fucked up rUK politics really are. Five days on from the election I am more convinced than ever that we need our independence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fudge Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 One thing is patently obvious, the Labour Party has absolutely no principles.A political party must stand for something, the minute it adapts it's policies in order to get elected then it is an empty vassal. Like the SNP has since the 50's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Like the SNP has since the 50's? I think the SNP has adapted as a party over a period of time. It's not the party it was in the 50's, or 70's or 90's. It still has independence as its core objective but, particularly since devolution, it has adopted policies in line with its responsibilities and the social, economic and structural change within Scotland. I think that's a positive thing, though I don't think the SNP is perfect. That's totally different between saying one day 'I'm in favour of spending £100 billion replacing Trident' the saying the following day 'im oppossed to spending £100 billion replacing Trident' which was the comparison I was making. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fudge Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 I agree with your last point but that was always Findlay's personal view before the referendum and will never be adopted by the Scottish Labour party. I just took it as what he would ideally like the SLab to be. Parties have to adapt over time. Gone are the days where most have manual labour jobs in a factory then go to the pub afterwards for 6 pints of bitter. A fair chunk of society is at least reasonably well off. A lot of people are selfish (I can honestly say I'd always vote for what I thought was best for the majority, not what was best for myself) and will vote for a party that benefits them personally. Labour have to appeal to the middle classes too. I am a firm believer that politically you can actually please most of the people most of the time. It is possible to help the poorer folk as well as the better off. It's getting the ratio right so that you can actually be elected as well as helping the majority that's the tricky part! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~~~ Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 I agree with your last point but that was always Findlay's personal view before the referendum and will never be adopted by the Scottish Labour party. I just took it as what he would ideally like the SLab to be. Parties have to adapt over time. Gone are the days where most have manual labour jobs in a factory then go to the pub afterwards for 6 pints of bitter. A fair chunk of society is at least reasonably well off. A lot of people are selfish (I can honestly say I'd always vote for what I thought was best for the majority, not what was best for myself) and will vote for a party that benefits them personally. Labour have to appeal to the middle classes too. I am a firm believer that politically you can actually please most of the people most of the time. It is possible to help the poorer folk as well as the better off. It's getting the ratio right so that you can actually be elected as well as helping the majority that's the tricky part! More than 1 of them opposed trident. It would have been a great policy for Scottish Labour..... but London knows best Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 I agree with your last point but that was always Findlay's personal view before the referendum and will never be adopted by the Scottish Labour party. I just took it as what he would ideally like the SLab to be. Parties have to adapt over time. Gone are the days where most have manual labour jobs in a factory then go to the pub afterwards for 6 pints of bitter. A fair chunk of society is at least reasonably well off. A lot of people are selfish (I can honestly say I'd always vote for what I thought was best for the majority, not what was best for myself) and will vote for a party that benefits them personally. Labour have to appeal to the middle classes too. I am a firm believer that politically you can actually please most of the people most of the time. It is possible to help the poorer folk as well as the better off. It's getting the ratio right so that you can actually be elected as well as helping the majority that's the tricky part! Nothing in that post I can disagree with. I think we can promote fairness and social justice in our society and win a majority of votes for it. The election result in Scotland last Thursday is testament to that. I genuinely feel that the attitudes in Scotland to helping others is different to that in rUK; that's why independence is so important. I also think as it when that happens we can show what is left of the UK that it is possible to have a prosperous yet compassionate society. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fudge Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 I know they did. What would be the point of a separate Scottish Labour party that radically different from the rest of the UK one? How could they be guaranteed to vote for the same policies as each other. In the event of both Labour parties together forming a majority government numbers wise (say 290 plus 40) would they have to form a coalition where SLab did a Lib Dem (in most recent coalition) style watering down of more extreme rest of UK policies? It isn't going to happen. For what it's worth, I'm not too concerned about the gap between rich and poor widening in the sense that I don't care of the rich become disproportionately richer as long as those at the bottom are brought out of poverty. Help the poor but don't temper the earning potential of those already well off. That's what labour will be aiming for and I don't blame them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fudge Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 I realise I am probably now sounding like a Jmo the cat style wankrag but I'm trying to think of how I would like labour to operate if I was a middle Englander open to the idea voting Labour and what would sway me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee Willie Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 This is Brian Taylor at the BBC: …Among Labour at Holyrood, there are as many views about the future of the party as there are group members. By contrast, the Scottish Labour group at Westminster is entirely united. :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~~~ Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 They still don't seem to get it http://www.labourhame.com/separation-is-still-not-the-answer/#more-4914 We have ensured our leader in Scotland leads our whole party, we have made clear our policies are decided by Scottish Labour, we have even changed our constitution to inform people we are patriotic. I also laugh at the suggestion they should have their cake and eat it I know that is what motivates those who in the past few days have called for a separate Scottish Labour Party, both from the right and the left of the party. But it is a proposal with which I fundamentally disagree. If you don't want to be a separate Party, then drop the Scottish tag, just be Labour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renton Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 I realise I am probably now sounding like a Jmo the cat style wankrag but I'm trying to think of how I would like labour to operate if I was a middle Englander open to the idea voting Labour and what would sway me Thing is, the centre is an entirely subjective construct, what Mandelson, Cameron etc now call the centre would have been considered fairly right wing even ten years ago. I actually do think middle England might respond to a left wing plan for government if it were delivered by people who actually believed in it - the statist approach of old, applied to the big industries of old, the unionised labour making up the majority of workers may be gone, but there are plenty of ways to apply left wing ideas to the modern, smaller hi-tech and creative industries. It could be in the form of Co-ops, for example - delivering more real decision making to the individual without hindering the more fluid job market: collective action through individual buy in, rather than statist intervention. The problem is Labour don't really stand for anything, or believe in anything beyond getting in power, and having misplaced their reputation for competency destroyed any reason for voting for them. Talk of lurching left or right is irrelevent, what they mean really is triangulating a list of retail spending offers that they think voters want, it's a hollowed out way of approaching politics and it simply doesn't work. They re terrified on their own shadows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fudge Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 In all seriousness, that's a great post. Agree with all of it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lambies Doos Posted May 12, 2015 Author Share Posted May 12, 2015 In all seriousness, that's a great post. Agree with all of it You have made some sensible posts here.. But 6 pints of bitter??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fudge Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 It was tongue in cheek. I hoped that was obviously. Being a flag waving Scottish Nationalist, I prefer Tennents Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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