Fotbawmad Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 There is absolutely no evidence to support the assertion that TTIP will cause the NHS to be privatised. https://fullfact.org/law/does_ttip_mean_privatisation_nhs-38681 When you have legislation drafted up by big multi-nationals. It's largely going to be legislation that favours them. If it happens to benefit you, great. If it doesn't, they could care less. After all, by law the executives have to maximize returns for their shareholders, which is fair enough, but there is a red line when they start using the arm of the state to achieve this. History has shown that these types of trade deals are job killers. It's ludicrous to have a situation where governments can be sued every time they do something which leads to a loss of profits. Worse still having it decided in secret courts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Gaines Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 COULDN'T care less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambomo Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 If you sign a 15 year contract with a company to run the trains in Scotland and they start ordering new rolling stock etc, they're going to be a bit rightfully miffed if you rip it up a year later, and you'll have to pay substantial compo. The NHS is already outsourcing, the only difference will be that US companies will be able to bid too, on a level playing field. There's no reason to think TTIP will make the Tories privatise the NHS anymore quickly than they already plan. Yeah, I get that if you break a 15 year contract that the company would rightful be angry. What about at the end of the 15 years? None of them are guaranteed to have the contract so how could they rightfully sue? The NHS is different though, it's still classed as a state provided service which no one has a contract for. Yes some bits are outsourced but we would be talking about full privatisation which can't be reversed - that is massively different from how it is now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 Yeah, I get that if you break a 15 year contract that the company would rightful be angry. What about at the end of the 15 years? None of them are guaranteed to have the contract so how could they rightfully sue? The NHS is different though, it's still classed as a state provided service which no one has a contract for. Yes some bits are outsourced but we would be talking about full privatisation which can't be reversed - that is massively different from how it is now. They couldn't sue after the end of a contract whether under TTIP or not. Don't know where you're getting this "full privatisation" from, lots of companies have contracts with the NHS, which don't have to be renewed. TTIP would have zero effect on that. P.S. Here's the European TTIP negotiators slant on privatisation (liberalisation of public services): The free trade agreement explicitly rules out liberalisation of public services, but it does concern the equal treatment of foreign and domestic private service providers. In the area of services the TTIP pursues aims no different to those set out in other trade agreements concluded in recent years and decades and which have long been in force in the EU. An important limitation is that which concerns the provision of public services: in the WTO's Agreement on Services (GATS) and all its other free trade agreements to date the EU has invoked a comprehensive horizontal (i.e. applying to all sectors) carveout on market access in the area of public services. This very far reaching carve-out enables the EU to keep monopolies for the provision of public services at all administrative levels, including local councils, and also takes into account the issue of concessions. In the case of the trade agreement with Canada, for example, the EU inserted a carve-out in the area of water. This carve-out explicitly allows for giving preference to European service providers over their foreign counterparts in the area of public monopolies and concession. http://trade.ec.europa.eu/doclib/docs/2014/may/tradoc_152462.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambomo Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 They couldn't sue after the end of a contract whether under TTIP or not. Don't know where you're getting this "full privatisation" from, lots of companies have contracts with the NHS, which don't have to be renewed. TTIP would have zero effect on that. P.S. Here's the European TTIP negotiators slant on privatisation (liberalisation of public services): http://trade.ec.europa.eu/doclib/docs/2014/may/tradoc_152462.pdf I read an article (I'll try and find it) which was basically saying that services which were considered to be run by the state of any country (which for now the NHS is even with some outsourced service) could be protected from being bid for by private companies if they were whitelisted in the terms of the agreement. Apparently Cameron is reluctant to do this which would mean that it was fair game to be opened up to private companies. As I say, I'll try find the article, I read it around the time of the referendum which was when I was looking more into a sorts of political stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strichener Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 I read an article (I'll try and find it) which was basically saying that services which were considered to be run by the state of any country (which for now the NHS is even with some outsourced service) could be protected from being bid for by private companies if they were whitelisted in the terms of the agreement. Apparently Cameron is reluctant to do this which would mean that it was fair game to be opened up to private companies. As I say, I'll try find the article, I read it around the time of the referendum which was when I was looking more into a sorts of political stuff. Which would be perfect for the Tories. Put the blame on the nasty trade agreement that the EU forced on us. Then hope the electorate are too stupid to understand the reality or too short sighted to worry about it. Its an easy out to for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob the tank Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 Does TTIP work both ways? For example the hospital trust and was it ATOS who just chucked their contracts a few months ago. Would the government be able to sue for breach of contract too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambomo Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 Which would be perfect for the Tories. Put the blame on the nasty trade agreement that the EU forced on us. Then hope the electorate are too stupid to understand the reality or too short sighted to worry about it. Its an easy out to for them. I also wonder if it's why we saw Royal Mail privatised when it was. I think they can only veto (whitelist) one thing so if it looked like Royal Mail would always have been privatised, Cameron and his chums would want to make sure he and his mates got first dibs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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