Yet another US shooting

[Louis Litt]

9 minutes ago, chomp my root said:

Is this real ? Sorry for questioning  but I hadn't heard this, that's frightening on a number of different levels.

See welshbairn's post, quoting it of a newspaper it covers people with 'a mental disorder so severe that they cannot work and need a representative to manage their benefits.'

Obviously not all levels of mental illness, but given the fact he's claiming that mental health issues are in fact the issue here, it's still absolutely laughable and talking such blatant shite which he doesn't believe it makes you want to cry.

[chomp my root]

1 minute ago, Louis Litt said:

See welshbairn's post, quoting it of a newspaper it covers people with 'a mental disorder so severe that they cannot work and need a representative to manage their benefits.'

Obviously not all levels of mental illness, but given the fact he's claiming that mental health issues are in fact the issue here, it's still absolutely laughable and talking such blatant shite which he doesn't believe it makes you want to cry.

The whole thing is so exasperating that you want to greet. Or mock. Or both. 

[Thistle_do_nicely]

I kinda get that gun culture is entrenched pretty heavily in 'murica and there are a lot of firearms in civilian hands so it would be hard, politically and practically, to start... but disarming the general public has to start somewhere, somehow, surely?

Surely?

Edited November 6, 2017 by Thistle_do_nicely

[chomp my root]

2 minutes ago, Thistle_do_nicely said:

I kinda get that gun culture is entrenched pretty heavily in 'murica and there are a lot of firearms in civilian hands so it would be hard, politically and practically, to start... but disarming the general public has to start somewhere, somehow, surely?

Surely?

They don't need to be disarmed, the 'spirit' of the 2nd Amendment could be met and the automatic weapons could be banned. They could still 'bear arms' without the lethality of automatic weapons. I can't be arsed to check but I'm sure I read/heard a similar percentage of Canadians have firearms, just not in the same quantities or type of firearms, there's only a small fraction of fatalities though.

[Sherrif John Bunnell]

[TheProgressiveLiberal]

On ‎11‎/‎5‎/‎2017 at 17:55, Cerberus said:

It's always a white male and he always has an English-y surname.

I'm all for white genocide.
White guys are the worst.

Yes, white people are overrepresented in random, mass public shootings compared to other crimes. Black people still beat us in this particular crime though. The difference is that their attacks don't make as much news because the body counts are lower. Black shootings are much more likely to end up like this:

http://www.wcpo.com/news/local-news/police-fifteen-shot-and-one-dead-following-cameo-night-club-shooting

14 wounded. 1 dead.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-texas-shooting-town/why-here-ask-residents-of-small-texas-town-after-massacre-idUSKBN1D60BS

25 wounded. 0 dead.

Replace your bigotry with facts.

 

 

[TheProgressiveLiberal]

13 hours ago, welshbairn said:

The vid at the top of this story is worth watching. An awful lot of Americans seem to mimic Hollywood characters, although maybe I'm wrong and it's the other way around. Well done to him anyway.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/11/06/an-unlikely-hero-describes-gun-battle-and-95-mph-chase-with-texas-shooting-suspect/?utm_term=.a5f3b6809eec

 

I'm not sure if the Wash Post is behind a paywall in the UK, but I assume you're talking about this video.

The neighbor of the church who engaged the shooter and flagged down this gentleman was a NRA instructor.

Is the previous poster correct that these people would face charges in Europe? That seems insane.

 

[TheProgressiveLiberal]

12 hours ago, The_Kincardine said:

'Gun activists' don't see it as a threat but as acceptable collateral damage.  For them the right to carry a gun to go for your messages matters much more than a small number of folk killed in mass shootings.

 

12 hours ago, pandarilla said:

 

It's incredible but you're right. I see it like some ancient African customs - each to their own but it's fucked up beyond belief.

When acceptable collateral damage includes the death of an 18 month old baby then you know you've lost the plot.

 

 

Banning immigration to the UK from Pakistan and Nigeria would undoubtedly lead to fewer British deaths. You still wouldn't support such a ban. Don't try and claim the moral high ground. You are willing to trade more deaths for your political beliefs.

12 hours ago, chomp my root said:

Yup and hard for the rest of us to get our heads round.

That the Second Amendment is an AMENDMENT kind of suggests that things were changed to include it, a lot of Septics seem to see it as unchangeable because it suits their personal agenda.  I can understand why they would want firearms to hunt or even a handgun for home defence, the logic of being able to rally against the State if the State was trying to oppress them falls flat on its arse, having an assault rife isn't going to help when the State roll up in a tank or helicopter gunship, basically utter bollocks but its a mass delusion that a hell of a lot of them buy into. Any change will have to be 'forced' on them, its ingrained into the psyche of far too many, can't see it happening any time soon, even Obama who was keen on changes couldn't swing it. 

It was basically agreed that the Bill of Rights would be included in the Constitution before it was ratified during the debates between the Federalists and Anti-federalists. They were put in during the first Congress.

You might be interested to look up the history of the American Revolution. The British parliament had been messing with the colonies in all the well known ways for years. Taxes, trade restrictions, disbanding local assemblies, etc. It was an attempt to disarm the colonists that actually started the shooting war. No attempt to do that and there's a decent shot that we still have the same Queen.

I don't personally make the argument that we need guns in order to fight our government. I fully expect the US military to be on the side of the people in such a scenario. However, you are incorrect in your assessment. A bunch of militia with "assault rifles" and homemade bombs fought the US military to a draw in Iraq and Afghanistan. Also, it's about what the government would never try to do if they know there's a potential violent resistance.

11 hours ago, welshbairn said:

That was very limited, just people who needed help filling in benefit claim forms because of mental difficulties. Literate psychopaths were still cool, as are people on the No Flight List because of suspected terrorist links. The daft thing is that the NRA is not some monolithic force that controls everything, they spend a tiny $4 million a year in lobbying and bribing politicians which is minuscule compared to the likes of Pharma and polluting industries etc. Politicians are scared shitless of them though. The polls are weird, an increasing amount of people are against gun control, slightly over 50% after many years of being under, but it's a different story if you ask specific questions.

http://www.people-press.org/2016/08/26/opinions-on-gun-policy-and-the-2016-campaign/

1. In polls asking whether people actually think any of those specific gun control measures will help stop killings, most people don't think so. 

2. The gun issues has become a culture war stand in. Both the right and the left have pushed this. Now conservatives or working/middle class white people who have never owned a gun have come to despise gun control because of the people pushing it. They don't actually think the guns are a threat worth worrying about. But they do hate the types of people who seem to be pushing it the hardest.

 

 

[TheProgressiveLiberal]

11 hours ago, chomp my root said:

They don't need to be disarmed, the 'spirit' of the 2nd Amendment could be met and the automatic weapons could be banned. They could still 'bear arms' without the lethality of automatic weapons. I can't be arsed to check but I'm sure I read/heard a similar percentage of Canadians have firearms, just not in the same quantities or type of firearms, there's only a small fraction of fatalities though.

Canada has always been a more peaceful country. Compare their Western expansion to that of the US for a historical example. Their people aren't as violent.

[TheProgressiveLiberal]

12 hours ago, welshbairn said:

"It's in our white culture that people sent to jail for beating their wife and kid and kicked out of the Army should be allowed to buy assault rifles godangit." 

(Just filling in)

For future fill ins, I think violent criminals caught owning guns should be jailed for life.

Edited November 7, 2017 by TheProgressiveLiberal

[pandarilla]

They don't actually think the guns are a threat worth worrying about. But they do hate the types of people who seem to be pushing it the hardest.
 
 

Like the parents of dead children.

Sent from my HTC One M8s using Pie and Bovril mobile app

[pandarilla]

Canada has always been a more peaceful country. Compare their Western expansion to that of the US for a historical example. Their people aren't as violent.

So your point is that Americans are just arseholes by definition? It just needs to be accepted.

Sent from my HTC One M8s using Pie and Bovril mobile app

[TheProgressiveLiberal]

1 minute ago, pandarilla said:

 

So your point is that Americans are just arseholes by definition? It just needs to be accepted.

Sent from my HTC One M8s using Pie and Bovril mobile app
 

 

We are certainly more violent historically. I'm not sure about bigger assholes. Canadian assholery tends to lean passive aggressive rather than overt or violent like American assholery. 

[Honest_Man#1]

15 minutes ago, TheProgressiveLiberal said:

We are certainly more violent historically. I'm not sure about bigger assholes. Canadian assholery tends to lean passive aggressive rather than overt or violent like American assholery. 

You're right, I'd much rather have an arsehole gun me and my entire family down, than an arsehole mutter an insult under his breath at me -that would be much worse.

[Shandon Par]

45 minutes ago, TheProgressiveLiberal said:

 

Banning immigration to the UK from Pakistan and Nigeria would undoubtedly lead to fewer British deaths. You still wouldn't support such a ban. Don't try and claim the moral high ground. You are willing to trade more deaths for your political beliefs.

 

 

126 deaths in the UK from terrorism in the last 17 years. You can post all the graphs you want but you're just a grubby little racist. 

[chomp my root]

1 hour ago, TheProgressiveLiberal said:

 

Banning immigration to the UK from Pakistan and Nigeria would undoubtedly lead to fewer British deaths. You still wouldn't support such a ban. Don't try and claim the moral high ground. You are willing to trade more deaths for your political beliefs.

It was basically agreed that the Bill of Rights would be included in the Constitution before it was ratified during the debates between the Federalists and Anti-federalists. They were put in during the first Congress.

You might be interested to look up the history of the American Revolution. The British parliament had been messing with the colonies in all the well known ways for years. Taxes, trade restrictions, disbanding local assemblies, etc. It was an attempt to disarm the colonists that actually started the shooting war. No attempt to do that and there's a decent shot that we still have the same Queen.

I don't personally make the argument that we need guns in order to fight our government. I fully expect the US military to be on the side of the people in such a scenario. However, you are incorrect in your assessment. A bunch of militia with "assault rifles" and homemade bombs fought the US military to a draw in Iraq and Afghanistan. Also, it's about what the government would never try to do if they know there's a potential violent resistance.

1. In polls asking whether people actually think any of those specific gun control measures will help stop killings, most people don't think so. 

2. The gun issues has become a culture war stand in. Both the right and the left have pushed this. Now conservatives or working/middle class white people who have never owned a gun have come to despise gun control because of the people pushing it. They don't actually think the guns are a threat worth worrying about. But they do hate the types of people who seem to be pushing it the hardest.

 

 

I'm passingly familiar with it, as for the rest, its just your opinion versus mine. I draw  different conclusions, that happens.

[chomp my root]

1 hour ago, TheProgressiveLiberal said:

Canada has always been a more peaceful country. Compare their Western expansion to that of the US for a historical example. Their people aren't as violent.

Maybe King Donald should send a 'fact finding mission' to Canada then.  Sounds like the US could learn something to their benefit.

[Ira Gaines]

Can nobody fucking multiquote?

[TheProgressiveLiberal]

13 minutes ago, Shandon Par said:

126 deaths in the UK from terrorism in the last 17 years. You can post all the graphs you want but you're just a grubby little racist. 

Wasn't referring to terrorism. Just general murder. Has immigration from certain countries contributed to higher murder rates than would otherwise be the case? Do you then cast aside your multicultural political principles? Or do you say that the price in human life is worth it?

 

[TheProgressiveLiberal]

20 minutes ago, chomp my root said:

Maybe King Donald should send a 'fact finding mission' to Canada then.  Sounds like the US could learn something to their benefit.

Not much learning can do to change things. Probably goes back to what became the US getting a generally lower class of British colonist in many parts, and the culture developed from there. 

Edited November 7, 2017 by TheProgressiveLiberal