Yet another US shooting

[TxRover]

A fun link with over 100 in school gun incidents, including more than a few mishandling by Resource Officers (Cops assigned to the school) and teachers/administrators allowed to carry…plus various stupid tricks over the last five years, but now almost a year old, so there’s bound to be more. Reading it is a rabbit hole of despair and disgust:

https://giffords.org/lawcenter/report/every-incident-of-mishandled-guns-in-schools/

[Guest]

On 28/03/2023 at 16:57, FreedomFarter said:

Because it was marketed to them by the plutocrats who run their society. Already wealthy men saw an opportunity to become even wealthier, to open a new market. Selling guns to random fuckers. Sell them in Wallmart. Tell Americans they need guns. Americans will oblige because they're a thoroughly obedient people, even forced as children to recite a pledge of allegiance/obedience. Implant in their their mind a mythical notion of "freedom" then use that association to sell them all the crap you can. Guns = freedom. Even though guns have the sole purpose of enacting violence and violence is the ultimate tyranny.

As Fullerene pointed out above, this philosophical argument using their constitution is a (relatively) recent development. From the 1950s, weapons companies began lobbying to get rid of the laws standing between them and profit. One trick they used was to reimagine the meaning of the second ammendment.

Better explained in the above clip. Americans have very little democratic control over their society. Then many are so brainwashed they go on to waste what tiny democratic opportunities they are given, responding with aggressive support for the status quo.

Edited March 30, 2023 by FreedomFarter

[Guest]

On 29/03/2023 at 16:18, Lofarl said:

 

What John Stewart does here is noble and great. He should keep doing it and is rightly lauded for it. However, while not in any way diminishing the excellent work he is already doing, folk like him need to go deeper in their analysis.

Destroying the philosophical arguments of US conservatives is great but those philosophical arguments are mere window dressing to conservatives, which is why they don't care when pulled up on it, like the one in Stewart's clip there. US conservative politicians know that the philosophical arguments for their policies are a pile of shit used just for selling the policy to their idiot electorate. Specifically on guns, that's the nonsense about constitutions, self-defence and so on.

Why conservative politicians really push these policies is because they're paid to. Financial elites pay the politicians to be their representatives in government. The NRA is wrongly perceived as the lobbying group for individual gun owners. It's not. The NRA is the lobbying group for the gun industry - manufacturers, importers, wholesalers and retail gun dealers. Stewart needs to press this point but it's a common US liberal failing to not question economic arrangements.

[TxRover]

9 hours ago, FreedomFarter said:

What John Stewart does here is noble and great. He should keep doing it and is rightly lauded for it. However, while not in any way diminishing the excellent work he is already doing, folk like him need to go deeper in their analysis.

Destroying the philosophical arguments of US conservatives is great but those philosophical arguments are mere window dressing to conservatives, which is why they don't care when pulled up on it, like the one in Stewart's clip there. US conservative politicians know that the philosophical arguments for their policies are a pile of shit used just for selling the policy to their idiot electorate. Specifically on guns, that's the nonsense about constitutions, self-defence and so on.

Why conservative politicians really push these policies is because they're paid to. Financial elites pay the politicians to be their representatives in government. The NRA is wrongly perceived as the lobbying group for individual gun owners. It's not. The NRA is the lobbying group for the gun industry - manufacturers, importers, wholesalers and retail gun dealers. Stewart needs to press this point but it's a common US liberal failing to not question economic arrangements.

I understand the argument, but I think you overestimate the intelligence of the U.S. electorate as  a whole. You can tell a wall that a fact is true, but the wall won’t respond. The Republican Party is now the party of the poorly educated masses, people who won’t believe anything you tell them unless it’s Laura Ingraham or such telling them what to think. Jon Stewart has a chance because he’s white and looks like a lot of them, but then he talks funny and uses big words. 70%+ of Fox News viewers have at most some college education, and 40% are high school graduate or less. Critical thinking is not a skill possessed of these demographic groups, and a vast majority of these people believe that businesses are out to help them, not hurt them.

[printer]

On 01/04/2023 at 17:31, TxRover said:

I understand the argument, but I think you overestimate the intelligence of the U.S. electorate as  a whole. You can tell a wall that a fact is true, but the wall won’t respond. The Republican Party is now the party of the poorly educated masses, people who won’t believe anything you tell them unless it’s Laura Ingraham or such telling them what to think. Jon Stewart has a chance because he’s white and looks like a lot of them, but then he talks funny and uses big words. 70%+ of Fox News viewers have at most some college education, and 40% are high school graduate or less. Critical thinking is not a skill possessed of these demographic groups, and a vast majority of these people believe that businesses are out to help them, not hurt them.

Easily done tbf.

[TxRover]

3 minutes ago, printer said:

Easily done tbf.

Don’t get too smug…

[Fullerene]

On 01/04/2023 at 17:31, TxRover said:

I understand the argument, but I think you overestimate the intelligence of the U.S. electorate as  a whole. You can tell a wall that a fact is true, but the wall won’t respond. The Republican Party is now the party of the poorly educated masses, people who won’t believe anything you tell them unless it’s Laura Ingraham or such telling them what to think. Jon Stewart has a chance because he’s white and looks like a lot of them, but then he talks funny and uses big words. 70%+ of Fox News viewers have at most some college education, and 40% are high school graduate or less. Critical thinking is not a skill possessed of these demographic groups, and a vast majority of these people believe that businesses are out to help them, not hurt them.

My view is that if you have a strong opinion on something nobody will sway you but you are easily swayed on any issue where you have no opinion at all.   If Benin and Togo went to war tomorrow, who would you support?  Apart from knowing these were two countries next door to Nigeria, do you know that much about them?

The US electorate are not more stupid than anyone else except that they are less informed on anything that happens outside the state they live in.  If you keep people ignorant of the world at large, it is easier to sway their opinion.   

[TxRover]

17 minutes ago, Fullerene said:

My view is that if you have a strong opinion on something nobody will sway you but you are easily swayed on any issue where you have no opinion at all.   If Benin and Togo went to war tomorrow, who would you support?  Apart from knowing these were two countries next door to Nigeria, do you know that much about them?

The US electorate are not more stupid than anyone else except that they are less informed on anything that happens outside the state they live in.  If you keep people ignorant of the world at large, it is easier to sway their opinion.   

It’s a compelling argument when you look at recent actions by Conservative majorities in a number of states banning books and prohibiting teaching a number of subjects. The problem here is increased by the already limited breadth of education in schools in the U.S., where World History is taught once in 13 years, as is Geography, but a sanitized version of U.S. History is taught three times. In other years, the “Social Studies” courses seldom cover anything of an international nature.

There was actually a Texas textbook submitted for approval, and approved, that referred to slaves as “immigrant workers”. When this was noticed, the publisher agreed to change it, but the paper version won’t be revised until 2024!

[Oystercatcher]

Just got a message from my mate in Mendocino

"Active shooter in fort Bragg high school."

 

What the f@ck is it going to take for Americans to see sense about their guns 

[carpetmonster]

3 minutes ago, Oystercatcher said:

Just got a message from my mate in Mendocino

"Active shooter in fort Bragg high school."

 

What the f@ck is it going to take for Americans to see sense about their guns 

The moment came and went with Sandy Hook unfortunately. 

[TxRover]

59 minutes ago, Oystercatcher said:

Just got a message from my mate in Mendocino

"Active shooter in fort Bragg high school."

 

What the f@ck is it going to take for Americans to see sense about their guns 

They see sense…it’s just not the kind of sense any rational or intelligent people would see. The simple facts are:

1) Money talks, and the gun industry donates vastly more money than anyone else.

2) The way U.S. elections work, with party primaries that have terribly low turnouts, encourage the selection of radical candidates over main stream ones.

3) The vast majority of the low turnout in the general election vote either a party line or by “names” and parties.

4) Gerrymandering has reduced competitive districts across the U.S. to less than 60 of 438.

5) So you end up with nut jobs like Boebert and Greene in office, because they were the choice in a Red district. They won because the party primary was controlled by less than 3% of the electorate, and put them into the general election against someone from the other side who has little to no chance to win.

6) 70% of Americans support more gun control in most polls, and despite that fact it won’t pass.

7) 51.3% is the total popular vote Biden received. In Congress, that same vote resulted in 212 of 435, or 48.7% in the House of Representatives, and 50 of 100 in the Senate, or 50%.

Finally, you need 60% in the Senate to assure passing legislation.

Edited April 3, 2023 by TxRover

[Oystercatcher]

Apparently it was a hoax, 3 schools targeted by hoax callers, mate said it was mental, swat teams, helicopters the lot.

 

[101]

On 28/03/2023 at 18:57, Mark Connolly said:

2 weeks ago was the 27th anniversary of Dunblane. There is plenty to say about John Major and Tony Blair, but they both took steps as PM to ensure nothing like that ever happened again.

Since that day, there have been 0 school shootings in the UK. There have been 398 in the US. In the two weeks since the 27th anniversary, there have been 3 school shootings in the US.

I don't really have a point here, at least not one that we don't already know, but those numbers are absolutely astonishing.

Thankfully we had the political will to make the changes required, however I don't think we can rest gun violence is still too high we were unlikely to make changes whilst Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson was in post as he was one of the biggest critics of the changes post Dunblane, which as an aside should have been reason enough never to take office. But the Labour party need to tighten things up to prevent the mass shooting we saw in 2021.

[TxRover]

Now this one is quality…Farmington, New Mexico. Police are dispatched to a domestic disturbance at an address, but go to the wrong address across the street. Man answers door, armed, police shot him…his armed wife opens fire on police…who return fire until sanity breaks out. Husband dies.

https://www.koat.com/article/farmington-police-kill-man-wrong-response-location/43535201#

[Theroadlesstravelled]

Florida sheriff goes on a wild rant against gun laws while announcing arrests in shootings that killed 3 teenagers.

The sheriff said the suspects obtained the guns used in the shootings through car burglaries.
“All the gun laws we got in place didn’t prevent it, did it? Neither will any new ones. Because here’s the fact: The bad guy is going to get a gun no matter what law you put in place. These juveniles shouldn't even possess a handgun but they did,” Woods added.

 

Dude, if there was proper gun laws in place then there wouldn't have been a gun to steal.
Add Florida to the flyover states.

[TxRover]

11 hours ago, Theroadlesstravelled said:

Florida sheriff goes on a wild rant against gun laws while announcing arrests in shootings that killed 3 teenagers.

The sheriff said the suspects obtained the guns used in the shootings through car burglaries.
“All the gun laws we got in place didn’t prevent it, did it? Neither will any new ones. Because here’s the fact: The bad guy is going to get a gun no matter what law you put in place. These juveniles shouldn't even possess a handgun but they did,” Woods added.

 

Dude, if there was proper gun laws in place then there wouldn't have been a gun to steal.
Add Florida to the flyover states.

Maybe a thought about how keeping a gun in a car doesn’t comply with any safe storage options, unless the car has a gun vault installed…and since they got the guns, probably not. Here’s a question, Mr. Sheriff, are you arresting anyone for leaving a gun in an unlocked vehicle? (I’ll bet the majority of those cars were unlocked, actually breaking into a car is very rare…most cases are kids/young adults walking through neighbourhoods and trying out car doors)

[Suspect Device]

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-65233350

 

5 dead and 6 taken to hospital according to early reports.

[BillyAnchor]

Thoughts and prayers

[101]

58 minutes ago, Suspect Device said:

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-65233350

 

5 dead and 6 taken to hospital according to early reports.

For every employee with a grievance there should be a good one to shoot the bad one down, is presumably the lesson taken from this? 

Very sad for the victims of course but the American news circus will be there for a day and move on to the next one with nothing down about the cause of this madness.

[Venti]

What the acual F with the violence today?!