Yet another US shooting

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

On 08/04/2023 at 04:41, Theroadlesstravelled said:

Florida sheriff goes on a wild rant against gun laws while announcing arrests in shootings that killed 3 teenagers.

The sheriff said the suspects obtained the guns used in the shootings through car burglaries.
“All the gun laws we got in place didn’t prevent it, did it? Neither will any new ones. Because here’s the fact: The bad guy is going to get a gun no matter what law you put in place. These juveniles shouldn't even possess a handgun but they did,” Woods added.

 

Dude, if there was proper gun laws in place then there wouldn't have been a gun to steal.
Add Florida to the flyover states.

That sheriff is a fucking moron, no one should be elected into a law enforcement position. Its madness. 

4 hours ago, TxRover said:

Automatic weapons are already strictly regulated and have literally never been used in a civilian mass shooting.

Bump stocks were banned in 2019, under Trump, by ATF Executive Action. A Texas gentlemen filed suit, and won. Now, within the 5th District (Texas, Louisiana and Mississippi) bump stocks are legal again, and the ATF missed the appeal deadline.

There is no license to own a firearm, and there are very limited records of sales that are not legally useable to trace ownership until and unless the weapon is used in a crime.

Honestly, people would deny still having the weapon (I sold it at the gun show last month…no receipt is required) and just hide them or bury them in earth tubes.

It’s likely to get interesting as tourists start dying in larger numbers.

 

 

Still wondering why posting facts about gun violence and laws in ‘Merica draws two red dots.

I still like travelling to the states but i now am edgy as f**k tbh, very careful about where I go. 

[TxRover]

3 hours ago, Brother Blades said:

No offence to our American dwelling or indeed American posters, but you live in a country that is either full of fuckwits or a country that is willing to put up with a minority of fuckwits. 

Absolutely none taken. It’s not as bad as it’s imagined from the news, but I do wonder when the pendulum will begin the swing back. The majority of the stupidity occurs outwith areas I frequent, so it’s reasonable calm, but I have pondered options and do have some.

[bennett]

9 hours ago, welshbairn said:

The local congressman..

 

Just going oot to shoot a few rabbits with my M60.

[TxRover]

3 hours ago, RuMoore said:

 

Today I learned you don't even need a license to own a gun in Murica. 

I really don't follow US politics so forgive my naivety but is licencing of guns seen as too far for the gun lobbyists. Is there not certain background checks or is this just something that differs state to state? 

I feel like surely that's the most sensible realistic starting point.

Well, let’s look at that. The idea of requiring a permit or getting permission to own a firearm is anathema to the gun rights crowd. Just as the concept of requiring insurance if you have a gun, because then the insurance could be made unaffordable to some (or all)…you see where they go. The 2nd Amendment is like the Bible, it can be read any of several different ways and some people will live or die for it. Element of the Constitution are venerated to an extreme, but other portions are actively ignored. The founders intent is commonly cited, without explanation of how to define that or explain it. The Republicans rail against activist judges until the activism is for things they want (banning abortion, et al).

So, the tracking of sales of guns by a gun store/dealer is allowed, ONLY on paper forms (known as 4473’s). The paper forms are submitted to an understaffed and poorly funded depot to be stored. There the forms may be searched in order to research a gun used in a crime only. Now this is happening:

https://www.nraila.org/articles/20220207/growing-atf-database-prompts-fears-of-gun-registry

https://forms.gunowners.org/form/atf-s-illegal-gun-registry

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/texas-congressman-introduces-anti-gun-registry-bill-atf-cracks-down-gun-stores

Yea, the gun lobby is stocking bullshit fears of a gun registry to increase fund raising, and a Congress critters are dancing to their masters voice.

There is a Federally mandated background check, with holes. The problems start with no clear understanding between agencies, states and localities Mon what has to be reported to the DoJ’s National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS). When a gun dealer, private transactions don’t have to do a background check, runs a name for purchase they get a “Proceed”, “Delayed” or “Denied” response. Two are clear, the ”Delayed” response means hold the sale until either three days or if a “Proceed” is sent before then. Yep, the system says maybe don’t sell this guy a gun, they have three days to research enough to prove a denial or it gets sold anyway. Also, if a person has a state permit to carry, they’d a skip the background check. I asked my local hunting superstore how long I’d have to wait to purchase a pistol and showed them my permit…they guy said “we’ll have you out of here in 10 minutes, as long as the credit card clears.”

Purchasing firearms via mail is more difficult, as a Federal firearms License (FFL) is required to receive a firearm by mail. That being said, my local pawn shop will do that for $25, $20 if you are a veteran or have a permit. Many collectors have FFL, but there are pretty strict record keeping requirements that many people don’t want to deal with. If you want, you could get a Curio and Relic (C&R) License, and receive forearms more than 50 years old in the mail, but again there is some record keeping and updating of addresses that people don’t like to mess with. And, yes, that means a Vietnam Era M-16 by mail is easily possible, it just can’t be fully automatic.

Fully automatic firearms are much more heavily restricted, and new one are very difficult to add to the system.

 

34 minutes ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

That sheriff is a fucking moron, no one should be elected into a law enforcement position. Its madness. 

I still like travelling to the states but i now am edgy as f**k tbh, very careful about where I go. 

Yes, he is.

Traveling anywhere it pays to know where you’re going and about the place. In ‘Murica the caution should be expanded these days. No driving games because the moron might be armed and having a bad day, be careful getting off major roadways (especially in large urban areas), learn about the area before you go blithely walkabout, the usual.
 

Edited April 11, 2023 by TxRover

[SlipperyP]

Watched a new report last night, the reporter was speaking to a gun dealer/shop owner about AR-15 and why he thinks they are the most common weapon used in was killings.

His response was top shelf 

"It's the most common gun we sell so it will be the most used weapon in these instances. Its not the gun killing people, it's bad people killing people.  If they were all out running over people in cars, would we want cars banned. I think not"

Reporter had no further questions.

[Raidernation]

22 hours ago, Brother Blades said:

No offence to our American dwelling or indeed American posters, but you live in a country that is either full of fuckwits or a country that is willing to put up with a minority of fuckwits. 

None taken. If it wasn't that the only family I have is here these days (All in the Chicagoland area) I'd be out of here!

Listening to the local news reporting shootings in Chicago/Suburbs is depressing as it's so commonplace now. 

I've never been involved an an incident with a gun directly, no idea how I'd respond (probably shite masel)

Both older stepdaughters have FOID cards and one definitely owns a gun (I've never seen it, no desire to) it just seems "natural" to them (having been brought up/schooled in Joliet might explain it!)

[Sergeant Wilson]

5 hours ago, Raidernation said:

None taken. If it wasn't that the only family I have is here these days (All in the Chicagoland area) I'd be out of here!

Listening to the local news reporting shootings in Chicago/Suburbs is depressing as it's so commonplace now. 

I've never been involved an an incident with a gun directly, no idea how I'd respond (probably shite masel)

Both older stepdaughters have FOID cards and one definitely owns a gun (I've never seen it, no desire to) it just seems "natural" to them (having been brought up/schooled in Joliet might explain it!)

Get a wee Derringer for down your boot.

[Molotov]

I’ve only been to the US on business trips.

I travelled quite extensively over there but mainly up and down the east coast. I took in some “interesting” pubs in and around Massachusetts including Boston.

Also had a “fun” time in Detroit. 

I was working at the time with some highly educated individuals - extremely clever guys working at the top of their specialisms. No common sense though. 

While I was there one time there was a school shooting and I made the error of discussing the flaws of gun ownership and what the UK have tried to do after Dunblane. Fcuking hell. These guys were so defensive it was actually quite disturbing. 

I did make a lot of good friends who are based all over the US. I’d love to return to visit as they always said to come and stay. 

I always wanted to do a cross USA road trip but it just seems that there are other less risky places to travel in the world. Perhaps I’m just getting old (but not wiser)!

Maybe I’ll just ask for travel advice from @Inanimate Carbon Rod

[TxRover]

This will sum much of it up for you all:

-Kentucky Law prohibits police from destroying the weapon (an AR-15 derivative) used in the killings.

-The local police can remove the firing pin, however they then have to surrender the weapon to state police officials.

-As a result, the weapon used by this shooter will be auctioned off to the public.

-The purchaser can reactive the weapon with a new firing pin, available starting at $6.95.

[SweeperDee]

6 hours ago, TxRover said:

This will sum much of it up for you all:

-Kentucky Law prohibits police from destroying the weapon (an AR-15 derivative) used in the killings.

-The local police can remove the firing pin, however they then have to surrender the weapon to state police officials.

-As a result, the weapon used by this shooter will be auctioned off to the public.

-The purchaser can reactive the weapon with a new firing pin, available starting at $6.95.

Is it really any surprise? Americans are fucking stupid. 

[TxRover]

6 hours ago, SweeperDee said:

Is it really any surprise? Americans are fucking stupid. 

Honestly, what it really shows is the gun industry has very effectively used its funds to hustle through legislation that protects their business. Time and time again the response of manufacturers and distributors of firearms is to encourage and enact legislation that stymies attempts to restrict their business, in much the same manner the tobacco companies did. The open question is will there be a concerted move to finally overthrow this regime, or will it take some greater, unimaginable tragedy to finally move the needle?

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

19 hours ago, Molotov said:

I’ve only been to the US on business trips.

I travelled quite extensively over there but mainly up and down the east coast. I took in some “interesting” pubs in and around Massachusetts including Boston.

Also had a “fun” time in Detroit. 

I was working at the time with some highly educated individuals - extremely clever guys working at the top of their specialisms. No common sense though. 

While I was there one time there was a school shooting and I made the error of discussing the flaws of gun ownership and what the UK have tried to do after Dunblane. Fcuking hell. These guys were so defensive it was actually quite disturbing. 

I did make a lot of good friends who are based all over the US. I’d love to return to visit as they always said to come and stay. 

I always wanted to do a cross USA road trip but it just seems that there are other less risky places to travel in the world. Perhaps I’m just getting old (but not wiser)!

Maybe I’ll just ask for travel advice from @Inanimate Carbon Rod

I have been all over, Boston, NYC, DC, Nashville, Memphis, Texas, Chicago, San Fran, Vegas, LA, San Diego, Orlando and Alaska. I just assume they are all armed. Unfortunately it seems its actually only the hot heads who seem to carry fire arms, road rage is mental, i had one guy almost crash into us, terrible bit of driving, he followed us in the car and wanted to fight, Im trained to a fairly decent level of driving, but this guy just wanted an excuse to shoot someone, just drove off. 
Out of all the places ive been so far, Id probably say the place i felt the most unsafe was San Francisco, Memphis and Boston. I like to think my situational awareness is pretty good and SF had people in crisis on every single street corner, it seems to be getting every worse. Memphis we were on beale street and took a walk to the Lorraine Motel as I love the history of the civil rights movement, there was gunfire in the not too distant streets, again felt quite unsafe. Boston kinda has this confrontational atmosphere, i suppose some may disagree but found the people really unfriendly and the area around Fenway etc was quite trashy. 
Sounds sad but I tend to go to big places where theres lots of security, Disney World/Land has essentially some of the best security in the world, feel safe there, same with an NBA game or MLB game. I get that LA has a reputation, but in all honesty, we ate in Boyle Heights and Compton and people were lovely and appreciative of the business (mexican food in LA in the neighbourhoods is next level), most of the violence in these places is gang violence. 
Texas was weird, nice place around Austin, people very liberal, but travel just a short distance and its full of gun nuts and christian extremists, there doesnt appear much of a middle ground. 
Alaska is the best place ive ever been to. 
San diego is my favourite city, its got lots of walkable wee neighbourhoods and parks and feels very safe. 

[Sergeant Wilson]

54 minutes ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

I have been all over, Boston, NYC, DC, Nashville, Memphis, Texas, Chicago, San Fran, Vegas, LA, San Diego, Orlando and Alaska. I just assume they are all armed. Unfortunately it seems its actually only the hot heads who seem to carry fire arms, road rage is mental, i had one guy almost crash into us, terrible bit of driving, he followed us in the car and wanted to fight, Im trained to a fairly decent level of driving, but this guy just wanted an excuse to shoot someone, just drove off. 
Out of all the places ive been so far, Id probably say the place i felt the most unsafe was San Francisco, Memphis and Boston. I like to think my situational awareness is pretty good and SF had people in crisis on every single street corner, it seems to be getting every worse. Memphis we were on beale street and took a walk to the Lorraine Motel as I love the history of the civil rights movement, there was gunfire in the not too distant streets, again felt quite unsafe. Boston kinda has this confrontational atmosphere, i suppose some may disagree but found the people really unfriendly and the area around Fenway etc was quite trashy. 
Sounds sad but I tend to go to big places where theres lots of security, Disney World/Land has essentially some of the best security in the world, feel safe there, same with an NBA game or MLB game. I get that LA has a reputation, but in all honesty, we ate in Boyle Heights and Compton and people were lovely and appreciative of the business (mexican food in LA in the neighbourhoods is next level), most of the violence in these places is gang violence. 
Texas was weird, nice place around Austin, people very liberal, but travel just a short distance and its full of gun nuts and christian extremists, there doesnt appear much of a middle ground. 
Alaska is the best place ive ever been to. 
San diego is my favourite city, its got lots of walkable wee neighbourhoods and parks and feels very safe. 

 

 

[Molotov]

54 minutes ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

Alaska is the best place ive ever been to. 
 

Thank you.
I must endeavour to give Alaska a visit.

[Molotov]

13 minutes ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

 

 

You ever tried to sing that? Jeezo 

The man in black! 

 

[TxRover]

2 hours ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

I have been all over, Boston, NYC, DC, Nashville, Memphis, Texas, Chicago, San Fran, Vegas, LA, San Diego, Orlando and Alaska. I just assume they are all armed. Unfortunately it seems its actually only the hot heads who seem to carry fire arms, road rage is mental, i had one guy almost crash into us, terrible bit of driving, he followed us in the car and wanted to fight, Im trained to a fairly decent level of driving, but this guy just wanted an excuse to shoot someone, just drove off. 
Out of all the places ive been so far, Id probably say the place i felt the most unsafe was San Francisco, Memphis and Boston. I like to think my situational awareness is pretty good and SF had people in crisis on every single street corner, it seems to be getting every worse. Memphis we were on beale street and took a walk to the Lorraine Motel as I love the history of the civil rights movement, there was gunfire in the not too distant streets, again felt quite unsafe. Boston kinda has this confrontational atmosphere, i suppose some may disagree but found the people really unfriendly and the area around Fenway etc was quite trashy. 
Sounds sad but I tend to go to big places where theres lots of security, Disney World/Land has essentially some of the best security in the world, feel safe there, same with an NBA game or MLB game. I get that LA has a reputation, but in all honesty, we ate in Boyle Heights and Compton and people were lovely and appreciative of the business (mexican food in LA in the neighbourhoods is next level), most of the violence in these places is gang violence. 
Texas was weird, nice place around Austin, people very liberal, but travel just a short distance and its full of gun nuts and christian extremists, there doesnt appear much of a middle ground. 
Alaska is the best place ive ever been to. 
San diego is my favourite city, its got lots of walkable wee neighbourhoods and parks and feels very safe. 

That’s all pretty fair. I’d add:

New Orleans can be very dangerous away from the tourist areas, however it is much like Compton or North Central in Los Angeles or SE Washington. Remain aware and stick to the day time, treat people respectfully and they’ll treat you that way back, and the food can be amazing.

Texas is a weird case, like noted some areas seem normal and some are next level  batshit crazy…but as long as you don’t have a political discussion or cut someone off (real or perceived), you’ll be absolutely fine. San Antonio and Fort Worth are pretty safe to walk about in the main areas, Houston and Dallas, not as much…but in the tourist areas, you’re absolutely fine and the museums and such are excellent. Got into the smaller towns in Texas and there’s more amazing stuff to see too. Fredericksburg is very German, Clifton is Norwegian, West hosts an excellent Czech bakery, and it goes on and on.

Portland has serious homeless issues, much like San Fransisco, and they are getting more aggressive in demanding money.

Chicago ‘s violence is very much related to neighbourhoods, and the main areas are a solid as any other, as is St. Louis and Atlanta.

Mass transit is generally a poor choice in America, except in a few cities like New York, Washington D.C., etc. The systems are generally stunted and the buses are a veritable twilight zone. So you have to drive…

Driving in America:

1) Every other driver believes they are God’s gift to driving and you are a static obstacle to their progress. Some of them are short tempered and armed.

2) Refrain from horn usage, the bumper sticker to remember is “Keep Honking, I’m Reloading”.

3) Take it easy, the car has air conditioning and seats, unlike just about anywhere you want to visit till you get inside. Relax, let the moron go ahead, look around at the street life and be thankful you aren’t walking right then.

4) If you miss an exit, no biggie, there will be another that will let you make a U-turn…BUT…make sure the exit you take will allow you to get back on the road, this is where Google Maps/Apple Maps is worth it, AS LONG AS YOU DON’T BLINDLY FOLLOW IT into the ‘hood.

5) Things are a long way apart in America, and gas is relatively cheap, so keep the car at least half full to avoid making a poor decision on getting a refill.

6) To judge a neighbourhood, look at the convenience stores. If it looks like this:

…the neighbourhood is reasonably safe.

If it looks like this:

…be cautious and I’d suggest only if you absolutely have to.

If it looks like this:

…you are in the wrong damn place and need to drive away and find a major road before you become a statistic.

Edited April 13, 2023 by TxRover

[Molotov]

4 minutes ago, TxRover said:

 

6) To judge a neighbourhood, look at the convenience stores. If it looks like this:

…the neighbourhood is reasonably safe.

If it looks like this:

…be cautious and I’d suggest only if you absolutely have to.

If it looks like this:

…you are in the wrong damn place and need to drive away and find a major road before you become a statistic.

All of those places look really welcoming compared to some of the “convenience” stores we have!  

 

[TxRover]

5 minutes ago, Molotov said:

All of those places look really welcoming compared to some of the “convenience” stores we have!  

But you have a little less weaponry...

[Molotov]

42 minutes ago, TxRover said:

But you have a little less weaponry...

You don’t know where I live! 

[Zetterlund]

3 hours ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

I have been all over, Boston, NYC, DC, Nashville, Memphis, Texas, Chicago, San Fran, Vegas, LA, San Diego, Orlando and Alaska. I just assume they are all armed. Unfortunately it seems its actually only the hot heads who seem to carry fire arms, road rage is mental, i had one guy almost crash into us, terrible bit of driving, he followed us in the car and wanted to fight, Im trained to a fairly decent level of driving, but this guy just wanted an excuse to shoot someone, just drove off. 
Out of all the places ive been so far, Id probably say the place i felt the most unsafe was San Francisco, Memphis and Boston. I like to think my situational awareness is pretty good and SF had people in crisis on every single street corner, it seems to be getting every worse. Memphis we were on beale street and took a walk to the Lorraine Motel as I love the history of the civil rights movement, there was gunfire in the not too distant streets, again felt quite unsafe. Boston kinda has this confrontational atmosphere, i suppose some may disagree but found the people really unfriendly and the area around Fenway etc was quite trashy. 
Sounds sad but I tend to go to big places where theres lots of security, Disney World/Land has essentially some of the best security in the world, feel safe there, same with an NBA game or MLB game. I get that LA has a reputation, but in all honesty, we ate in Boyle Heights and Compton and people were lovely and appreciative of the business (mexican food in LA in the neighbourhoods is next level), most of the violence in these places is gang violence. 
Texas was weird, nice place around Austin, people very liberal, but travel just a short distance and its full of gun nuts and christian extremists, there doesnt appear much of a middle ground. 
Alaska is the best place ive ever been to. 
San diego is my favourite city, its got lots of walkable wee neighbourhoods and parks and feels very safe. 

I've been to the US a good few times and my sister lives in NYC. We also did a west coast road trip for our honeymoon in 2017, and a driving holiday through Florida in 2019

I see a lot of unpleasant commentary about New York, but in all the times we've been there exploring the city I've never witnessed anything nasty. The odd weirdo on the subway is about as bad as I've seen.

San Francisco was horrific though, and it's probably worse now. People literally strewn on the pavements, alive or dead who knows, and a constant smell of excrement in the air around the downtown area. Horrible. Quite why anyone would want to live there is beyond me, especially considering the living costs. We had an interesting conversation with a taxi driver one night, a Mexican-American who shared a house with 3 other drivers and worked 7 days to afford it. Each of them paid $1900/month rent. We asked him why he does it and his response - it's San Francisco, man!

Before our Florida trip, if I thought of Florida I thought of Disney, Miami Beach and the Keys. I don't think I really appreciated until I drove through it that rural Florida is basically the Deep South. One day driving around when we missed a turn, I absolutely did not want to stop and reverse into a side road in case it was private property and I got shot.

We stayed in Miami for a few nights which was fine, although we did note that one of the hotel reviews said there was a drive-by shooting at breakfast recently.

The US is a fascinating place to visit, but there's always a little voice in the back of my mind telling me I need to keep my head down in case someone decides he wants to shoot someone today.