Granny Danger Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 That's a fucking shocking post. It's absolutely clear he was upset deeply by the attack, and as a spokesperson for the lgbt community that's not surprising. Sky news refused to call this out as a clear homophobic terrorist attack and I can't decide whether that was deliberate or just misguided. This was not a random attack on the freedom of westerners but a clear attack on gay people. I think pigeon holing this as purely homophobic is as bad as ignoring the obvious homophobic element. I also think ignoring the levels of homophobia amongst Islamic communities is wrong. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoda Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 I think pigeon holing this as purely homophobic is as bad as ignoring the obvious homophobic element. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerberus Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 Well, at least you're being more productive with your tin foil rather than using it in the oven or for burning heroin. Stop stealing my thoughts ya c**t! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 I've seen numerous people in this conversation reference US gun laws. Obama wondered in his speech whether we wanted to be the type of country where terrorists can obtain these weapons. I watched the Owen Jones video and the British media folks in that video couldn't stop talking about US gun laws. It's fine if you want to talk about "retarded little shits," or even American organized crime, and the state of US gun laws regarding those folks. That's different than terrorism. You only have to look across a short sea to Ireland to see whether people committed to political violence can find guns. Beyond the terrorism issue, you could also look at the relative gun laws of Mexico (basically banned) and Canada (you can obtain handguns and assault rifles legally in large parts of that country, long guns basically everywhere) to wonder how effective laws are. Funded, supported and cheered on by Americans. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 What does that even mean? Do you have a contribution to make to the debate? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 I am aware that there's a stereotype of Boston and NYC Irish Americans funding and supplying the IRA. I have no idea if it's true or not because I've never hung out in the east coast Irish scene. Who supplied the other side? I'd wager it wasn't their long lost cousins in Kentucky and Tennessee. Guns exist and people bent on political violence will obtain guns. If they don't obtain guns they will build bombs, use their cars, etc. Nobody's trying to sweep that under the rug. Which gun law would have stopped this person? Eastern Europeans and the Libyans. Who also supplied Republicans. Irish Americans went out of their way to supply, encourage, fund, support and condone the IRA murder campaign. But now these same people will be screaming "foul". 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoda Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 What does that even mean? Do you have a contribution to make to the debate? "Pigeon holing" this as "purely homophobic" is not "as bad" as "ignoring the obvious homophobic element". 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invergowrie arab Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 I think pigeon holing this as purely homophobic is as bad as ignoring the obvious homophobic element. I also think ignoring the levels of homophobia amongst Islamic communities is wrong. It's not pigeon holing it's acknowledging. Also if you are keen to highlight Islamic homophobia then probably best not to gloss over it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Koop Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 Let's not forget good old male power and violence. Not one of the 'reasons' behind this kind of mass murder that has been discussed, but female perpetrators are few and far between. Just putting that thought out there. Nature or nurture? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTChris Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 I haven't seen the clip but is it true that Owen Jones said "you don't understand this because you aren't gay"? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 "Pigeon holing" this as "purely homophobic" is not "as bad" as "ignoring the obvious homophobic element". I really still have no idea about the point you are trying to make. It's not pigeon holing it's acknowledging. Also if you are keen to highlight Islamic homophobia then probably best not to gloss over it. I agree that discussing this massacre without acknowledging the homophobic aspect is ridiculous beyond the extreme. Equally to suggest tht is exclusively about homophobia is simplistic IMO (I am not suggesting that you are doing this). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Saints Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 (edited) Owen Jones' argument was spot-on, although I partially feel that he went about it in the wrong way. ''You don't understand because you're not gay'' was a silly thing to say. He also stormed off the set at a strange point in the discussion, when they were actually just about to read a quote from an LGBT spokesman. Fundamentally, however, Jones is correct. Edited June 13, 2016 by The Real Saints 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invergowrie arab Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 On the continuum from its exclusively about homosexuality to its nothing to do with it the Sky presenter and JHB seemed to be almost entirely dismissive of the homosexuality element. To suggest it just as much an attack on people out having fun is absolutely ridiculous. Also using words like lunatic is completely offensive as it absolves the perpetrator of responsibility for a decision consciously made, planned and executed. It's like saying Lee Rigby was killed because he was British. I can only imagine people denying it are homophobic themselves or are blissfully ignorant of the effects of homophobia.Jones was effectively being told not to make a fuss. Whilst you certainly don't have to be gay to understand this, in the context of the conversation I think Jones had every right to point out the interviewers ignorance on the basis of his privilege. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 Owen Jones' argument was spot-on, although I partially feel that he went about it in the wrong way. ''You don't understand because you're not gay'' was a silly thing to say. He also stormed off the set at a strange point in the discussion, when they were actually just about to read a quote from an LGBT spokesman. Fundamentally, however, Jones is correct. From what the killer's dad says the attack does seem to motivated more by straightforward homophobia than the general IS instructions of just kill as many people as possible. The Bataclan Theatre massacre wasn't motivated by a deep loathing of Death Metal fans. That was the point the other two were trying to make but Jones wouldn't let them. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 Someone already said it's a pity we're talking about Owen Jones rather than the massacre but, at least in part, in the UK his actions appear to have become part of the narrative. If he sees himself as a spokesperson for the LGBT community his actions have not done him or them any favours. I'm a wee bit conflicted about the "you don't understand because you're not gay" comment. Whilst he seems to be taking stick for this I'm wondering if a black person taking about discrimination would get as much criticism if he or she said "you don't understand because you're not black". 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel Sanchez Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 Sky news refused to call this out as a clear homophobic terrorist attack and I can't decide whether that was deliberate or just misguided. This was not a random attack on the freedom of westerners but a clear attack on gay people.It's both. Acceptance of homosexuality is a major part of western civilisation which ISIS sympathisers would be against. It's quite possible that I'd missed something at that point last night, but aside from the line from his dad about having seen two guys kissing and being disgusted by it there was little information about the shooter's motivations. No notes, no news of information or literature in his home. Just that he had phoned the police and pledged allegiance to ISIS. Nothing about the specific location he was going to target or why. I've no doubt it being a gay club was a reason for it being targeted, but Jones' hysterical YOU HAVE TO CALL IT HOMOPHOBIC performance is on the same level as Trump's slavering about Obama not calling it radical Islam hours after it happening for creating a divided sense of panic among a society which will universally condemn it regardless. I haven't seen the clip but is it true that Owen Jones said "you don't understand this because you aren't gay"?Yep. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williemillersmoustache Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 I would imagine white, straight, conservative, sky news and LBC presenters are unlikely to have had to face discrimination on a regular basis. The "you don't understand because you're not gay" jibe was ill-considered but the basic point is correct. Their lack of experience is a good shout for what drives their lack of empathy. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marty_j Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 That's a fucking shocking post. It's absolutely clear he was upset deeply by the attack, and as a spokesperson for the lgbt community that's not surprising. Sky news refused to call this out as a clear homophobic terrorist attack and I can't decide whether that was deliberate or just misguided. This was not a random attack on the freedom of westerners but a clear attack on gay people. Owen is a top bloke, met him on several occasions. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invergowrie arab Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 Why did Jones storm out of that interview? Not now mate, go and be stupid somewhere else. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invergowrie arab Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 Apologies - I tried to watch video on my phone and can't hear it very well so wasn't sure what was said. He thought the fact it is a gay club was being overlooked. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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