When will indyref2 happen?

[Colkitto]

They seem to think there is no real demand for indy referendum in Scotland and delaying it they hope it will all fizzle out.

Considering indyref1 never really stopped and now they are telling us we cannot have another referendum I can't see it fizzling out somehow.. 

[NotThePars]

Theresa May claiming Scots can't vote to leave a union without a concrete plan. It shouldn't be possible for someone to consistently play themselves so frequently. If this is the best Westminster can offer then we should be embarrassed we shat it once already.

[Tony Ferrino]

10 minutes ago, Shades75 said:

Kezia coming up on the BBC to campaign on behalf of Theresa May.

Strange days when a Tory PM makes a statement and the media's default is to go to a Labour leader to support it.

Gordon the Gopher is no longer available to the BBC. 

He would have made more sense though.

[pandarilla]

Gordon the Gopher is no longer available to the BBC. 
He would have made more sense though.

Was it ewe-tree that did it for Gordon at the bbc?

[Shades75]

Already lying.

[sparky88]

14 minutes ago, Colkitto said:

They seem to think there is no real demand for indy referendum in Scotland and delaying it they hope it will all fizzle out.

Considering indyref1 never really stopped and now they are telling us we cannot have another referendum I can't see it fizzling out somehow.. 

The only demand for a second independence referendum is amongst the independence supporter echo chamber. Sturgeon would be better off at least appearing to enact the rest of her own manifesto.

[Shades75]

Just now, sparky88 said:

The only demand for a second independence referendum is amongst the independence supporter echo chamber. Sturgeon would be better off at least appearing to enact the rest of her own manifesto.

It is obvious to anyone who is paying attention why no voters don't want a referendum.

They have everything to lose and nothing to gain.

Please don't raise the untruth that a meaningful number of Yes voters don't want a referendum.

[pandarilla]

It is obvious to anyone who is paying attention why no voters don't want a referendum.

They have everything to lose and nothing to gain.

Please don't raise the untruth that a meaningful number of Yes voters don't want a referendum.

 

A meaningful number yes but by no means all.

 

And add that to virtually zero no voters.

 

That certainly doesn't add up to a majority so it's a fair point to question.

 

[Mr Heliums]

5 minutes ago, pandarilla said:

A meaningful number yes but by no means all.

And add that to virtually zero no voters.

That certainly doesn't add up to a majority so it's a fair point to question.

Of course 'No' voters are going to be against a referendum, particularly when its outcome is in doubt. But I wonder how many actually believe there is no mandate for a referendum, which is a very different thing. There unquestionably is and it reflects badly on anyone who suggests otherwise.

[vikingTON]

11 minutes ago, sparky88 said:

The only demand for a second independence referendum is amongst the independence supporter echo chamber. Sturgeon would be better off at least appearing to enact the rest of her own manifesto.

An "echo chamber" that consists of a mere 46% of the country (SSAS) and has a comfortable, fresh majority in the current Scottish Parliament to do as it wants. 

Thanks for playing anyway. 

[pandarilla]

Of course 'No' voters are going to be against a referendum, particularly when its outcome is in doubt. But I wonder how many actually believe there is no mandate for a referendum, which is a very different thing. There unquestionably is and it reflects badly on anyone who suggests otherwise.

Sturgeon was very creative with the mandate. It was abundantly clear that she didn't want to promise a second referendum but wanted a mandate nonetheless. Political posturing but that's what politicians do.

I still get the sense that the majority of people in Scotland are not keen on another referendum this soon.

[Mr Heliums]

Just now, pandarilla said:

Sturgeon was very creative with the mandate. It was abundantly clear that she didn't want to promise a second referendum but wanted a mandate nonetheless. Political posturing but that's what politicians do.

 

What do you mean creative? I don't understand. It's in black and white in the manifesto. They formed a government. We surely expect a government to fulfil – or attempt to fulfil – manifesto commitments.

[pandarilla]

What do you mean creative? I don't understand. It's in black and white in the manifesto. They formed a government. We surely expect a government to fulfil – or attempt to fulfil – manifesto commitments.

The promise to be able to do it...not the promise to do it.

That's being creative.

[ICTJohnboy]

2 minutes ago, pandarilla said:

 

Sturgeon was very creative with the mandate. It was abundantly clear that she didn't want to promise a second referendum but wanted a mandate nonetheless. Political posturing but that's what politicians do.

I still get the sense that the majority of people in Scotland are not keen on another referendum this soon.

 

 

Possibly not right at this moment, but when the UK govt is getting nearer to completing on Brexit, and we have some idea where we stand, that will be the time to have another referendum..

[Mr Heliums]

1 minute ago, pandarilla said:

The promise to be able to do it...not the promise to do it.

That's being creative.

 

I still don't get you. A mandate is an authority to do something. She's got that. Are you saying she's being creative in her interpretation of it?

[Shades75]

11 minutes ago, pandarilla said:

 

A meaningful number yes but by no means all.

 

And add that to virtually zero no voters.

 

That certainly doesn't add up to a majority so it's a fair point to question.

 

I'm not sure if you're agreeing with me or not, sorry - I might not be reading it correctly!

virtually no no voters want a referendum.

vurtually all yes voters want a referendum.

It is unfair to base the question of another referendum on the polls of who wants another referendum.  Especially so as the poll they are referring to did not ask the question, "Do you want A Scottish independence referendum?".  There were timescales and before/after Brexit conditions attached.

Some on the Yes side won't want a referendum now, but they do want one.  Others won't want one before Brexit but they do want one.  There are certainly more variables on the Yes side than the no  side to take into account.

No voters don't want one.  Not now, not then, not ever.  They simply don't need one to get what they want.

There will never be a clear majority of people who want a referendum until there is a clear majorit of people who would vote yes, so the only way to decide is to....

....Have a referendum!!!!!! 

[Shades75]

9 minutes ago, pandarilla said:

 

The promise to be able to do it...not the promise to do it.

That's being creative.

 

She promised to do it based on the exact set of circumstances that have prevailed.  In what way is that creative?

[pandarilla]

I still don't get you. A mandate is an authority to do something. She's got that. Are you saying she's being creative in her interpretation of it?

You don't get me or you don't get it?

Sturgeon did not want to be held to a mandate promise she didn't particularly want (but the extra thousands who joined the party post ref1 certainly did).

The wording of the manifesto was creative. That's what politicians do (of all colours).

The vast, vast majority of voters don't read these documents, but they still matter. She certainly has more of a mandate than may does.

[Shades75]

1 minute ago, pandarilla said:

 

You don't get me or you don't get it?

Sturgeon did not want to be held to a mandate promise she didn't particularly want (but the extra thousands who joined the party post ref1 certainly did).

The wording of the manifesto was creative. That's what politicians do (of all colours).

The vast, vast majority of voters don't read these documents, but they still matter. She certainly has more of a mandate than may does.

 

The wording of the manifesto was exact.

Edited March 16, 2017 by Shades75

[Mr Heliums]

5 minutes ago, pandarilla said:

The wording of the manifesto was creative. That's what politicians do (of all colours).
 

 

I think it was fairly clear– by memory the right to hold a referendum, for example, if we were pulled out of the EU against our will. While it never absolutely committed to holding a referendum, I don't see anything particularly creative about its framing.

Edited March 16, 2017 by Mr Heliums