Mr Heliums Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 (edited) It's utterly undemocratic, but tactically probably the smartest thing the Tories can do. Hold it in 2019 and there's a real chance Yes will win. Delay it a year or two and the SNP will have to win another election before it - effectively meaning we have to win it twice. By 2021, Brexit will also be in place, so the 'No' campaign can dredge out the uncertainty angle again. And there's not much we can do about it apart from gripe. If we hold it anyway we wouldn't get into the EU even if we won. The Tories approach is ugly, insulting and deceptive. But who expected anything better? You'd hope sensible LibDem or Labour voices might speak out, but don't hold your breath. Edited March 16, 2017 by Mr Heliums 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 10 minutes ago, Ross. said: Why? I didn't say it would be strong governance. I said it would look like it. Which it would. It would be presented as May giving Scots what they want but ensuring it was on her terms. Now they are left looking like fools who have no control over any of the situations they are dealing with. It would look like panic not good governance. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibsFan Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 The advantage of living in England is getting the sweet combination of people knowing nothing about Scotland and still allowing their own heads to fall off. It's amazing how quickly the media and the general population can change their beliefs to suit them when it comes to these referendums... 2014: "We're one big happy union, why would you want to leave? You have no idea what you're leaving for. It would be an economic disaster for Scotland to leave!" 2016: "We're tired of being told what to do by people we didn't vote for. The risks of leaving are worth it for our independence. We need to take back control!" 2018/19: "We're one big happy union, why would you want to leave? You have no idea what you're leaving for. It would be an economic disaster for Scotland to leave!" 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross. Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 Just now, Baxter Parp said: It would look like panic not good governance. It would be spun very differently. She'd be giving the Scots what they want and would be ensuring rUK negotiates Brexit knowing exactly what it can and cannot bring to the table. Instead the UK will have the Scotland question hanging over them constantly and it will be used at every opportunity by the EU to ensure favourable terms in any deals that are done. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 3 minutes ago, Ross. said: It would be spun very differently. There's no amount of spin that could turn May into Machiavelli. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tartan Dave Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mastermind Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 Can't wait for Nicky to come out all guns blazing with her riposte, it will be a sight to behold. It's been a pretty beige response from 'Nicky' tbh. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shades75 Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 7 minutes ago, Mastermind said: It's been a pretty beige response from 'Nicky' tbh. Sturgeon - The Prime Minister has today made a bid to block Scotland’s referendum. Theresa May does not appear to have listened to the plan I set out on Monday. I did not propose a referendum now, but to give the people of Scotland a choice once the terms Brexit are clear - and before it is too late to choose a different path. Scotland’s future must be Scotland’s choice – not Theresa May’s Anything otherwise would be a democratic outrage. Seems black and white to me. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugster Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 9 minutes ago, Mastermind said: It's been a pretty beige response from 'Nicky' tbh. I don't think you know what beige means, "Mastermind". If you pay a tenner to the site you can change your username, which I think you should consider as yours is probably the least apt on here. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crùbag Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 3 hours ago, welshbairn said: The Brexit timetable says the deal should be done by March 2019. What's wrong with holding the referendum then? That's roughly what the ScotGov propose. Get it done before we're dragged out of the EU while we have the chance to do something about it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sergie's no1 fan Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 34 minutes ago, Mr Heliums said: It's utterly undemocratic, but tactically probably the smartest thing the Tories can do. Hold it in 2019 and there's a real chance Yes will win. Delay it a year or two and the SNP will have to win another election before it - effectively meaning we have to win it twice. By 2021, Brexit will also be in place, so the 'No' campaign can dredge out the uncertainty angle again. And there's not much we can do about it apart from gripe. If we hold it anyway we wouldn't get into the EU even if we won. The Tories approach is ugly, insulting and deceptive. But who expected anything better? You'd hope sensible LibDem or Labour voices might speak out, but don't hold your breath. We don't need Westminster's permission to have a referendum though, the standard has been set by the EU referendum, if that result can still hold even though it wasn't legally binding then so can a Scottish Independence referendum result. After the whole Brexit farce they wouldn't be able to tell us our one isn't legally binding. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 22 minutes ago, Tartan Dave said: That would be brilliant. Sturgeon needs to challenge May to a face-to-face debate on the issue. I'll check the bookings for 12 Ruel Street. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crùbag Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 47 minutes ago, Ross. said: Why? I didn't say it would be strong governance. I said it would look like it. Which it would. It would be presented as May giving Scots what they want but ensuring it was on her terms. Now they are left looking like fools who have no control over any of the situations they are dealing with. Given Hammond's handling of the budget and Davis' clueless performance on Brexit, this would seem to be spot on. http://uk.businessinsider.com/david-davis-admits-he-has-not-calculated-cost-of-a-no-deal-brexit-2017-3 Quote Brexit secretary admits leaving the EU without a deal would create new tariffs and trade barriers. Britain could lose bank passporting and face costly border checks. However, Davis admits they have not calculated the economic impact of a no-deal Brexit. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Heliums Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 4 minutes ago, sergie's no1 fan said: We don't need Westminster's permission to have a referendum though, the standard has been set by the EU referendum, if that result can still hold even though it wasn't legally binding then so can a Scottish Independence referendum result. After the whole Brexit farce they wouldn't be able to tell us our one isn't legally binding. Of course we could hold one, but it would be in the knowledge that the UK Government may not accept the result, and Spain would almost certainly veto our entry into the EU, which surely is one of the major points of holding the referendum. We'd be losing a major tactical advantage and open ourselves up to attack. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crùbag Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williemillersmoustache Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 6 minutes ago, Crùbag said: What a fucking catastrashambles. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mastermind Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 I don't think you know what beige means, "Mastermind". If you pay a tenner to the site you can change your username, which I think you should consider as yours is probably the least apt on here. 'Nicky's response has hardly been earth-shattering, or a sight to behold. You got a little carried away, it's okay. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugster Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 1 minute ago, Mastermind said: 'Nicky's response has hardly been earth-shattering, or a sight to behold. You got a little carried away, it's okay. So not "beige" then? Thanks anyway. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shades75 Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 Kezia coming up on the BBC to campaign on behalf of Theresa May. Strange days when a Tory PM makes a statement and the media's default is to go to a Labour leader to support it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capybara Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 http://derekbateman.scot/ May has done us all a favour. And Ruth and wee Fluffy are doing her dirty work here. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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