mjw Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 Where does this figure come from? Virtually everyone agrees that this figure cannot be verified. Yoons mostly. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fide Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 6 hours ago, Deanburn Dave said: I am old enough and wise enough to know that politicians, financial experts and the media will tell the plebs all sorts of nonsense knowing that ultimately when things go pear shaped they can blame somebody else for the totally unexpected situation that we end up with. Wee Nicola saying follow me and I will take you to a better place isn't going to wash with the majority of people in Scotland. The SNP have had plenty of opportunity and the powers to make Scotland a better place and we are going backwards in the several areas which are the responsibility of the Scottish Government. The SNP supporters will no doubt moan that the poor performance is caused purely by a lack of money and that's the fault of Westminster. They will tell you that in a successful independent Scotland the money will be available but the reality is that the only way the Scottish Government gets more money is through massively increased taxes. If a person is struggling to ride a bike then you don't let them loose on an expensive unicycle. Canny Scots will not be persuaded by these charlatans to ditch the stability of being part of the UK to take a chance that an independent Scotland would be the better option. Nicola is gambling on a loser. I am surprised that you're of the older generation. Care to tell me in what way the SNP are performing badly? So far as I can see, we have the best performing NHS in the UK, crime is at a 41 year low, free public transport for auld folk, housebuilding target exceeded, free tuiton at Unis, ending massively unfair Right to Buy, mitigation of bedroom tax, plus plenty more. Not bad under crushing Tory cuts. 6 hours ago, sfha said: Also Scotland's trade with the UK (ie England, Wales etc) is 4 times greater than that to the EU. Conversely do you think England & Wales will stop trading with us? We produce too much electricity in Scotland. England doesn't produce enough. What's the sensible thing for England to do that doesn't involve cutting off it's nose to spite it's face? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Heliums Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 7 hours ago, DeeTillEhDeh said: May showed today just how out-of-her-depth she is - the only way they can stop a Yes vote is having it sooner not later. This plays right in to Yes's hands. Don't agree. Short–term it will annoy a few, but the plan I assume is to kick it far enough away and then let people get fed up with continual arguments about it. The 'No' campaign's core constituency is those who are fed up with discussing independence. That number might well grow if they spin it out long enough. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 Fide - the correct response to him should have been that this is not about the SNP - as you have repeatedly said to me on many an occasion.The real point, and one that must be constantly pushed, is that there is a democratic deficit. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harry94 Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 May showed today just how out-of-her-depth she is - the only way they can stop a Yes vote is having it sooner not later. This plays right in to Yes's hands. Stupidity would be an understatement. I don't know if it's stupidity as much as it's a sign that they've given up on things. We'll see in the coming years but I wouldn't be surprised if Westminster don't put up much resistance in the next term of Parliament. My hunch is that they've kind of conceded defeat already and know it is coming one day. It's often been said that losing Scotland would be a resigning issue but I think the Tory base are well past caring.Taking the issue on right now may have resulted in better odds to the 'No' side but with the clusterfuck that seems to be getting made regarding the EU and how ill equipped the government look in manpower, I could see a bit of panic about maybe adding this in. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTG Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 May will be aiming for 2 things. 1. She'll try and push this far enough back that Holyrood will need another election and an aspiration that there won't be an indy majority. 2. Most EU citizens who would vote Yes have fucked off and/or have citizenship rights adjusted in such a way that they can't vote. Sturgeon needs to push this through in this parliament - particularly to ensure that the second point above doesn't happen. I'd say it's nearly a certainty that EU residents will not be given a blanket right to stay. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fide Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 1 hour ago, DeeTillEhDeh said: Fide - the correct response to him should have been that this is not about the SNP - as you have repeatedly said to me on many an occasion. The real point, and one that must be constantly pushed, is that there is a democratic deficit. You're quite correct my man. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Heliums Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 13 minutes ago, HTG said: May will be aiming for 2 things. 1. She'll try and push this far enough back that Holyrood will need another election and an aspiration that there won't be an indy majority. This is the crucial thing. At some point during their thinking the Tories must have thought this was the best idea – and then thought that fighting the next Holyrood elections along constitutional lines is no bad thing for the Tories. More seats at expense of Labour and get a lot of people tired of the referendum debate. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fide Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 Irrelevant ACH of the irrelevant Lib Dems talking irrelevant shite again. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 11 hours ago, Thistle_do_nicely said: - the SNP guy whose name is escaping me dismissed a Catalonia style consultative referendum but I think he did say that it was only his own stance on the matter. Yes, one has to be cautious about opinions in case they're used as a stick to beat you with in later years (see: "once in a generation") 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crùbag Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 The reply of top economist to Twitter spat with dogfood salesman. Interesting reading. Quote One is called Wings over Scotland, who appears universally hated by unionists. I have not bothered to find out why. Another is a person called Kevin Hague, who appears to enjoy much the same status with nationalists, who appear all too keen to mention the fact that he makes his living selling dog food, as if that disqualifies him from comment: that I would not agree with. Kevin Hague does however have an unusual style of argument and a surprising following. He has published a blog under the title Richard Murphy, GERS Denier which seems to require somecomment before I then explore bigger issues. Quote As GERS shows, Scotland has almost no real data on its economy. Whether its tax income, savings, investment, imports, exports and much else, what I am saying (and what it seems Margaret Cuthbert is saying) is that there is simply no data available for Scotland. And that means that the decision has been taken by those who might collect this data – which for these purposes would all seem to be London based agencies – not to collect it. UK govt is one humongous catastrofuck... http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2017/03/16/on-scotland-data-data-denial-and-gers/ 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weesiecodal Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 18 hours ago, philyerboots said: Aye right enough , what about this piece of democracy . Cry democracy only when it suits yer agenda. " Scotland has voted to stay in the United Kingdom after voters decisively rejected independence. With the results in from all 32 council areas, the "No" side won with 2,001,926 votes over 1,617,989 for "Yes". Is that the same kind of democracy which advocates that it's perfectly reasonable and justifiable to ignore a larger majority of voters wishes on a particular issue just because a significantly smaller majority answered a completely different question two years previously, aye? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat(The most tip top) Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 I'd like an independent Scotland because I think it'd be a good laugh. This might not be the cleverest argument put forward on either side during this debate but it certainly won't be the daftest 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blootoon87 Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 'Scotland trades four times as much with England than Europe', we keep being told. Yet May says after Brexit, Britain will still be able to trade with the rest of Europe no bother. So what exactly would be the problem with trading with an independent Scotland in or out of the EU?Also, can someone explain why Britain is fighting so hard to keep us if we're costing them a fortune, we're benefit spongers, etc. If we're really costing them so much, surely they'd be delighted to cut us off? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mizfit Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 'Scotland trades four times as much with England than Europe', we keep being told. Yet May says after Brexit, Britain will still be able to trade with the rest of Europe no bother. So what exactly would be the problem with trading with an independent Scotland in or out of the EU?Also, can someone explain why Britain is fighting so hard to keep us if we're costing them a fortune, we're benefit spongers, etc. If we're really costing them so much, surely they'd be delighted to cut us off? I asked a Tory councillor that at the last referendum. Just kept referring to our countries joint efforts against the nazis.The same guy is now a list MSP. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 Righty-ho then. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ned Nederlander Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 10 hours ago, DeeTillEhDeh said: Just like there was a concrete plan for Brexit . . . BBC 5Live has been playing a rather pleased-with-himself 'No' voter telling us that we didn't know the terms of independance 2 weeks before the vote as if that's somehow relevant to the SNP wanting the next referendum to be 6 months before we actually feckin leave the EU. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DublinMagyar Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 I didn't understand a word of that. But I liked the pictures! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 43 minutes ago, Baxter Parp said: Righty-ho then. Fucking hell Aye, nae bother. I hope NS calls this out for what it is - delaying tactics to ensure EU nationals can't vote 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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