When will indyref2 happen?

[Bairnardo]

This is the sort of performance that condemns any "he's trolling" argument to failure.

[Wee-Bey]

Fair play m25.

Good to know you've reached the male menopause Daily Mail/Facebook stage of life where you get incredibly angry at imaginary situations you've made up in your head.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

That's it.  I never used the expression 'proud Scot' and tend not to.  Largely, the phrase 'proud Scot' has been hijacked by you Timberland boots and kilts idiots when daft wee Nippy tells you to go on some march.

Your continual use of inaccurate stereotypes shows how out of touch some unionists are.

Yes there might be some tartan clad flag-waving types but they are not representative of the whole.

Unlike these mutants.

[Antlion]

1 hour ago, MixuFruit said:

There's a small coterie of unionists who genuinely think they're fighting fascism, ironically enough, but Kincardine isn't one of them.

Anyway, batter on. Screaming at the sensible majority that they're bigoted xenophobes is exactly what I want to see unionists doing.

That and claiming that the polls are all fixed and really everyone is a closet Little Briton. The Twitter crazies’ (Kincy’s racist pals) denials tend to indicate that they’re not doing anything to protect the UK state because they’re too busy putting their fingers in their ears and claiming that only a tiny minority of Scotch traitors aren’t slavish worshippers of it.

[Gordon EF]

Difficult to tell who the worst Nazis are tbf, SNP voters or BLM.

[Tutankhamen]

2 minutes ago, Gordon EF said:

Difficult to tell who the worst Nazis are tbf, SNP voters or BLM.

Jeezo

[GiGi]

12 hours ago, The_Kincardine said:

There are two foundation stones upon which independence is built.  The first is an irrational loathing of The Basturt English and the second is the notion of Scottish exceptionalism.

The first is odious and the second is ignorant.

 

10 hours ago, The_Kincardine said:

This the blight of Natterism.  You small-minded fuckwits want border guards at Gretna when we Brits feel no such need.

Shame on you.

 

8 hours ago, The_Kincardine said:

Eh? Why the need for a source?  A hard border is what you Glegarried-up types crave the most.

This is genuinely entertaining. Worst attempt at gaslighting I've ever read. More please.

[Ira Gaines]

3 hours ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

Your continual use of inaccurate stereotypes shows how out of touch some unionists are.

Yes there might be some tartan clad flag-waving types but they are not representative of the whole.

Unlike these mutants.

This isn't much better than what he's doing though.

[Antlion]

12 hours ago, The_Kincardine said:

Just to quote you for the hard of thinking:

Oh for sure I am conflicted - and have never denied it.  I'm a proud Scot been to Uni in London, lived here on and off for 30+ years and have weans who are half British and half Swedish who are also bilingual.  One was born in London and two in Edinburgh and none of them want to make the choice between being British, Scottish or European.

This the blight of Natterism.  You small-minded fuckwits want border guards at Gretna when we Brits feel no such need.

Shame on you.

 

Only the need to put up borders, guards, and apparently huge lorry parks in Kent because you just love to hate those foreigns.

[Anonapersona]

15 hours ago, The_Kincardine said:

Indeed.

It does amuse me to see the cosplaying grievance junkies trying to build a case for partitioning our nation state along ethno-nationalist lines whilst in complete denial of Scotland's history.

You keep deliberately missing the point of independence. It's got nothing to do with history. It's all about what's happening now.

[Pocketman]

4 hours ago, Gordon EF said:

Difficult to tell who the worst Nazis are tbf, SNP voters or BLM.

not for you it wouldn't. 

[Gordon EF]

1 hour ago, KingRocketman II said:

not for you it wouldn't. 

How's that?

[DeeTillEhDeh]

This isn't much better than what he's doing though.

Whoosh.

[Ira Gaines]

I don't really give a f**k if it's a joke. It's xenophobia and therefore bigotry. Other bigotry doesn't get accepted for a joke (Well, some other forms anyway) so I don't see why this should either.

[NotThePars]

1 minute ago, Andre Drazen said:

I don't really give a f**k if it's a joke. It's xenophobia and therefore bigotry. Other bigotry doesn't get accepted for a joke (Well, some other forms anyway) so I don't see why this should either.

because it's not remotely comparable to most actual bigotry and it's staggeringly reductive and dismissive to insist it is

[Wee-Bey]

It's xenophobic to call Rangers fans mutants ?

Nil by Mouth have gone too far this time.

 

[Wee Bully]

I got to say that I love Kinky’s dedication to the cause.

It is exactly why I also follow Historywoman on twitter - I love seeing the state that the Uber-Unionists wind themselves up into. It’s almost as if they think that pouring enough scorn upon their own country will persuade others to self-flagate too, not realising all it does is give us a good laugh.

It’s not about the past. It’s not about the English. It’s about the future, and us. Standing or falling on what we do.

Hope over fear.

[Pocketman]

9 hours ago, Wee Bully said:

I got to say that I love Kinky’s dedication to the cause.

It is exactly why I also follow Historywoman on twitter - I love seeing the state that the Uber-Unionists wind themselves up into. It’s almost as if they think that pouring enough scorn upon their own country will persuade others to self-flagate too, not realising all it does is give us a good laugh.

It’s not about the past. It’s not about the English. It’s about the future, and us. Standing or falling on what we do.

Hope over fear.

am the same. I follow some Uber-unionists on twitter as well as some "moderates" (for want of a better word). Despite dalliances with economics, resources and voting representation, their argument always essentially returns to the same generic basis - if you want independence then you are anti-English. Desperate links, quotes and references to individuals who conform to that narrative are tweeted as if isolated utterances and fringe individuals are credible evidence of this. Our Uber-unionist boy does this on here also. it simply provides them with comfort in thinking that their beliefs are "good" and anyone who wants independence is "bad" as it is not because indy supporters wish to see self-determination resulting in hopefully a better fairer society with all key decisions made in-country, but its because they simply hate another group. 

it constantly comes back to this and until the union argument focuses on addressing why someone living in Scotland would not want their country fully governed from Scotland and moves away from what their erroneous assessment of what is driving support for independence, then they are howling at the moon

[DeeTillEhDeh]

am the same. I follow some Uber-unionists on twitter as well as some "moderates" (for want of a better word). Despite dalliances with economics, resources and voting representation, their argument always essentially returns to the same generic basis - if you want independence then you are anti-English. Desperate links, quotes and references to individuals who conform to that narrative are tweeted as if isolated utterances and fringe individuals are credible evidence of this. Our Uber-unionist boy does this on here also. it simply provides them with comfort in thinking that their beliefs are "good" and anyone who wants independence is "bad" as it is not because indy supporters wish to see self-determination resulting in hopefully a better fairer society with all key decisions made in-country, but its because they simply hate another group. 

it constantly comes back to this and until the union argument focuses on addressing why someone living in Scotland would not want their country fully governed from Scotland and moves away from what their erroneous assessment of what is driving support for independence, then they are howling at the moon

It's the point I was making with the flip stereotype of Rangers fans.

 

Kincy continually uses the most extreme supporters of independence as being the typical independence supporter - it's a deliberate ploy by uber-Unionists to tar all independence supporters with the same brush.

 

Anyone who knows me will tell you I am as far removed from the flag waving tartan gonk as you could get - I don't think that I will be particularly different in that way to other independence supporters.

 

[harry94]

25 minutes ago, MixuFruit said:

Scottish society probably is more moral than English society but that's a function of there being a greater proportion of more educated people in Scotland than England. There are more people living here who can be more analytical and more of them make it into positions in public life that can effect some change. They count on votes from a more educated population and so this incrementally builds to politics that are a bit better for everyday folk than in England. It's why all this 'how will you pay for it?' stuff just doesn't work.

I often wonder how much of the difference is down to poor messaging from the left England.

The last few Labour manifestos have usually been something like 'we'll gain more revenue, nationalise x, improve this benefit system, put more into social services.....' and quite a lengthy construct. The other team are always saying something similar enough that it can be zoned out. There's got to be something more tangible in terms of effect stated in understandable terms. Blair didn't often speak about x percent boosts to the education budget, he consistently stated classroom sizes which is something that can be easily related to.

I feel this is particularly important when the term 'nationalisation' enters the fray. Often you are looking at things where benefit won't be derived for a long time and the communicated benefit is often 'it's an essential resource and others shouldn't be profiting from it' just doesn't do enough. If your answer isn't striking enough that you can't save someone money (that they can easily understand) in a foreseeable time frame or give a noticeable benefit, it should be hidden in one of the back pages IMO.

I fear Starmer hasn't really grasped any of that and is simply trying to shadow the whole 'get Brexit DUN NOW' message rather than prep for winning in 2024. If there's no argument from this side that has effective direct messaging, these voters are at the mercy of whatever crap is thrown to them in print press.