When will indyref2 happen?

[Granny Danger]

People who claim that they want Independence whilst stating they won’t vote SNP lack credibility.

[Zern]

5 minutes ago, Detournement said:

How in the world do you think Sturgeon or the SNP are going to implement UBI?

Sturgeon and Murrell must wake up every morning and give thanks that the population of Scotland has so many people actively seeking magic beans.

Through independence, full fiscal autonomy that allows areas of welfare and spending to be managed.

Just as the UK government is able to slash welfare spending and cut NHS spending, our state could do it differently.

[Detournement]

3 minutes ago, Zern said:

Through independence, full fiscal autonomy that allows areas of welfare and spending to be managed.

Just as the UK government is able to slash welfare spending and cut NHS spending, our state could do it differently.

The SNP don't want full fiscal autonomy. 

They want to piggyback on GBP.

[Scott Steiner]

1 hour ago, Soapy FFC said:

There are several things from the SNP Govt that I don't particularly agree with. However, on the other hand I think it would be hard, if not impossible, to find any political party where you agree with everything they said and did. I'm not saying that makes it right, but I just think in supporting a party you sometimes have to take the rough with the smooth as long as they are going in a general direction you like.

Tend to agree with this.

That's what it's like with me and the Tories.

[Zern]

1 minute ago, Detournement said:

The SNP don't want full fiscal autonomy. 

They want to piggyback on GBP.

Oh FFS

Any plan for independence requires using the currency that we currently use.

Whether we transition to the Euro or some other currency is largely irrelevant as they all begin with using the GBP.

[Antlion]

1 hour ago, Detournement said:

How in the world do you think Sturgeon or the SNP are going to implement UBI?

Sturgeon and Murrell must wake up every morning and give thanks that the population of Scotland has so many people actively seeking magic beans.

A bit like Johnson and co thanked their lucky stars that people like you would be pleased with their fantasy of Brexit. 

[Detournement]

1 minute ago, Antlion said:

A bit like Johnson and co thanked their lucky stars that people like you would be pleased with their fantasy of Brexit. 

I voted Remain.

[Antlion]

6 minutes ago, Detournement said:

I voted Remain.

And then began supporting Brexit and, when the Tories gained their majority, claimed you were glad Brexit was happening. I’m sure your being won round by how it unfolded would please Johnson more than he’d be pleased by the idiots he initially conned but who ended up with buyer’s remorse.

[Scott Steiner]

11 minutes ago, Detournement said:

I voted Remain.

He wonn't listen to logic or reason mate 

Edited December 22, 2021 by Scott Steiner

[Detournement]

1 minute ago, Antlion said:

And then began supporting Brexit and, when the Tories gained their majority, claimed you were glad Brexit was happening. I’m sure your being won round by how it unfolded would please Johnson more than he’d be pleased by the idiots he initially conned but who ended up with buyer’s remorse.

As soon as Leave won the referendum leaving the EU was inevitable. 

The Second Referendum nonsense was devised wholly to damage Corbyn after the strong result in 2017. 

 

[HoBNob]

2 hours ago, Granny Danger said:

People who claim that they want Independence whilst stating they won’t vote SNP lack credibility.

 

Christ, you're wild. What on earth would I have to gain from "claiming" to support Independence? It'd be one hell of a long guise. 

 

You're absolutely wild. 

[Antlion]

35 minutes ago, Detournement said:

As soon as Leave won the referendum leaving the EU was inevitable. 

The Second Referendum nonsense was devised wholly to damage Corbyn after the strong result in 2017. 

 

And I’m sure Johnson was delighted that so many were not only accepting of Brexit, but “glad” it was happening under his rule. Exactly what he needed and needs are gullible converts who profess themselves glad with the direction of the ship he chose to steer.

[Baxter Parp]

Because its another policy/decision that I simply don't agree with. 

Even though it's the right thing to do. Got it.

[Baxter Parp]

Because I think the measures are simply too heavy handed and excessive. 
If the variant is so severe we need to be putting restrictions on then I don't get why we need to wait four? Days for the restrictions to be imposed either. 

Because there will always be arseholes who would ignore the rules and party like it's 1999 if the restrictions were brought in immediately. This way we get to have a reasonable Xmas and then a restricted new year.

[Granny Danger]

36 minutes ago, Grant228 said:

 

Christ, you're wild. What on earth would I have to gain from "claiming" to support Independence? It'd be one hell of a long guise. 

 

You're absolutely wild. 

You’re not the only person on P&B to make the claim.  Like I say their is no credibility in claiming a desire for Independence yet denying support for its only credible vehicle.  It’s an irrational stance.

[Ayrshire Analytica]

20 hours ago, Baxter Parp said:

You can count out the years 2015, 2016, 2017 we were never going to have a referendum so soon after 2014. The first positive case of Covid in Scotland was 1st March 2020 and we've been playing catchup ever since so that's the last year and a half effectively ruled out.  That leaves you 2018 and 2019 but we hadn't been dragged out of the EU by then, that happened on the 1st January 2020.  SO that leaves you the first two months of 2020 when we could conceivably have had a referendum and the Scottish Government "failed their mandate".

It was a UK election, sport.  The mandate for Indy lies in Holyrood.

You've made a decent attempt at explaining the SNP's inaction, and you're correct that the pandemic has been going on longer than one year.  

In my opinion, the "we had to wait to be dragged out of the EU" argument is pure semantics.  Any arrangement between the British and the EU, without our consent, is equally egregious.  It also doesn't explain the complete lack of policy on independence, how we will gain it and what it will look like, since the indyref.  

You're right that the mandate to proceed with independence lies at Holyrood.  Another poster mentioned that, according to polling, the SNP on course to win 59 out of 59 of the Westminster seats.  They had 56 before, under the present management.  I think nationalists are right to be asking at this point, what difference will that make, if those MPs have no intention of forming an independent government in Edinburgh?  The same question can be posed for Holyrood.  

[Scott Steiner]

45 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

You’re not the only person on P&B to make the claim.  Like I say their is no credibility in claiming a desire for Independence yet denying support for its only credible vehicle.  It’s an irrational stance.

Many defectors to Alba have done so because they think the SNP aren't a credible vehicle for partition though.

[HoBNob]

1 hour ago, Granny Danger said:

You’re not the only person on P&B to make the claim.  Like I say their is no credibility in claiming a desire for Independence yet denying support for its only credible vehicle.  It’s an irrational stance.

Ah yes Granny Danger, for I have posted for many years about supporting independence and the snp, just on the off chance a global pandemic would come along where after two years of various restrictions I would turn heel and be fucked of by the way the SNP is being run. 

 

If I had foresight as good as that I would've used its powers for something useful, christ. 

 

I support Scottish Independence, in it currnent form I do not support the SNP, I also don't support Alba and they also support independence, hth. 

1 hour ago, Baxter Parp said:

9 hours ago, Grant228 said:

Because its another policy/decision that I simply don't agree with. 

Even though it's the right thing to do. Got it.

If that's what you think chief. 

[sophia]

10 minutes ago, Grant228 said:

Ah yes Granny Danger, for I have posted for many years about supporting independence and the snp, just on the off chance a global pandemic would come along where after two years of various restrictions I would turn heel and be fucked of by the way the SNP is being run. 

 

If I had foresight as good as that I would've used its powers for something useful, christ. 

 

I support Scottish Independence, in it currnent form I do not support the SNP, I also don't support Alba and they also support independence, hth. 

If that's what you think chief. 

I do think sounding off is a good thing, best to let it out. After that passes, it can often leave space to reflect and in this instance allow you to declare who you do support....

 

[Baxter Parp]

1 hour ago, Ayrshire Analytica said:

In my opinion, the "we had to wait to be dragged out of the EU" argument is pure semantics.  

I think a lot of people forget that Sturgeon had been touting the idea of an indy referendum because of the result of the EU referendum and we promptly lost 21 seats in 2017.  That set us back through to 2018 and at least until the Brexit disaster started to be revealed under May. "We had to wait" isn't semantics it's the reality.

1 hour ago, Ayrshire Analytica said:

 I think nationalists are right to be asking at this point, what difference will that make, if those MPs have no intention of forming an independent government in Edinburgh?  The same question can be posed for Holyrood.  

The MPs won't be forming the government, it'll be the MSPs and if you don't think voting SNP is worthwhile, who is?