When will indyref2 happen?

[Baxter Parp]

44 minutes ago, Grant228 said:

If that's what you think chief. 

That's the science, chief. Apart from viewers in England.

[HoBNob]

1 hour ago, Baxter Parp said:

That's the science, chief. Apart from viewers in England.

Is it? Surely science can only give you information, it's then upto the personal to interpret and decide what action is necessary? 

 

At what point do you put restrictions in? How severe does the illness need to be? Science doesn't have a set mark for "at x do x" if it did, we wouldn't have so many differing approaches to this. 

[Baxter Parp]

1 minute ago, Grant228 said:

Is it? Surely science can only give you information, it's then upto the personal to interpret and decide what action is necessary? 

Is it bollocks.  You think Boris Johnson and Sajid Javid know what to do when faced with a 4x more infectious strain of disease in the middle of a pandemic that's killed 140,000 people so far?  Do they f**k.

[HoBNob]

24 minutes ago, Baxter Parp said:

Is it bollocks.  You think Boris Johnson and Sajid Javid know what to do when faced with a 4x more infectious strain of disease in the middle of a pandemic that's killed 140,000 people so far?  Do they f**k.

It's odd that you've mentioned that it's infectious, but not said anything about how it's less dangerous. 

 

Odd that. Has the omicron variant killed 140,000? Because that's what you've made it sound like there. 

[Ayrshire Analytica]

2 hours ago, Baxter Parp said:

I think a lot of people forget that Sturgeon had been touting the idea of an indy referendum because of the result of the EU referendum and we promptly lost 21 seats in 2017.  That set us back through to 2018 and at least until the Brexit disaster started to be revealed under May. "We had to wait" isn't semantics it's the reality.

The MPs won't be forming the government, it'll be the MSPs and if you don't think voting SNP is worthwhile, who is?  

I disagree that 21 seats were lost because of the idea of indyref2, I think they were lost because of an absence of any vision or incisive action by the party after the 2015 result.  People returned to the fold, to an extent, at the subsequent two UK elections out of desperation, more than hope or expectation, along with the catastrophic and duplicitous actions of the British government. 

In my opinion, the Scottish MPs elected from the final UK election in which Scotland is a part, or at least the front benchers, would help comprise the body which would negotiate independence, a national commission.  You're right though the independent government would be comprised of MSPs. 

I voted SNP my whole adult life, including the Holyrood election this summer, but I resigned to join ALBA, who I voted for on the list.  Leaving the SNP was decision I took with a heavy heart, because I used to consider the SNP as more than a party, but rather, Scotland's national movement.  I have to say though, I've never regretted it. 

I'm resolved to the conclusion that the SNP leadership have acquiesced to a role of colonial administration within the UK, and therefore, abdicated being the political vehicle to advance independence.  It's now a political vehicle to advance careerist, blandees.  Basically, New Labour 2.0.

[HoBNob]

29 minutes ago, Ayrshire Analytica said:

 

I'm resolved to the conclusion that the SNP leadership have acquiesced to a role of colonial administration within the UK, and therefore, abdicated being the political vehicle to advance independence.  It's now a political vehicle to advance careerist, blandees.  Basically, New Labour 2.0.

@Granny Danger The credibility on this guy eh? Totally lacking. 

 

[Granny Danger]

46 minutes ago, Grant228 said:

@Granny Danger The credibility on this guy eh? Totally lacking. 

 

He’s a troll.  Surprised you can’t spot that!

[Baxter Parp]

2 hours ago, Grant228 said:

It's odd that you've mentioned that it's infectious, but not said anything about how it's less dangerous. 

It's odd that you've not addressed my point at all.

2 hours ago, Grant228 said:

Odd that. Has the omicron variant killed 140,000? Because that's what you've made it sound like there. 

Odd that.  Because what I said was the pandemic has killed 140,000, not Omicron.  Odd in fucking deed.

[Baxter Parp]

2 hours ago, Ayrshire Analytica said:

I disagree that 21 seats were lost because of the idea of indyref2,

It's right there in the 2017 manifesto. It's what we campaigned on.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2017-40091999

Hold a second independence referendum "at the end of the Brexit process"

Either way we weren't going to be able to push for an independence referendum because of how poorly we did that year.

Edited December 23, 2021 by Baxter Parp

[HoBNob]

9 hours ago, Baxter Parp said:

It's odd that you've not addressed my point at all.

Odd that.  Because what I said was the pandemic has killed 140,000, not Omicron.  Odd in fucking deed.

Because you have no point. You were very keen to point out how more transmissable this variant is, but for whatever reason you totally missed out how much more mild it is. 

 

Glad you've agreed it was odd. 

[Baxter Parp]

Because you have no point. You were very keen to point out how more transmissable this variant is, but for whatever reason you totally missed out how much more mild it is. 
 
Glad you've agreed it was odd. 

There's no gain in milder symptoms if it's 4x more transmissible, dimwit. The NHS will still get swamped with cases if we do nothing.

Now, do you think Boris Johnson and Sajid Javid know what to do when faced with a 4x more infectious strain of disease in the middle of a pandemic that's killed 140,000 people so far? 

Address the point or f**k off.

[Zern]

21 minutes ago, Grant228 said:

Because you have no point. You were very keen to point out how more transmissable this variant is, but for whatever reason you totally missed out how much more mild it is. 

 

Glad you've agreed it was odd. 

The measures are designed to decrease the transmission, so that is why it is relevant.

Mild?

Is it non-fatal yet?

The fact is; increases in the number of cases leads to increased numbers of hospitalisation and deaths.

Are you really in the position of declaring it nothing of concern whilst the health service -which has no respite- has to deal with the fallout.

[John Lambies Doos]

Because you have no point. You were very keen to point out how more transmissable this variant is, but for whatever reason you totally missed out how much more mild it is. 
 
Glad you've agreed it was odd. 

Have to disagree tbh, yes its looks milder but there will still be an increase in hospital numbers due to sheer transmission rate. Unfortunately that puts too much strain on system to deal with covid but also all the other illness out there.

[HoBNob]

1 hour ago, Zern said:

The measures are designed to decrease the transmission, so that is why it is relevant.

Mild?

Is it non-fatal yet?

The fact is; increases in the number of cases leads to increased numbers of hospitalisation and deaths.

Are you really in the position of declaring it nothing of concern whilst the health service -which has no respite- has to deal with the fallout.

Again though, how severe the omicron variant effects people, is also just, if not more relevant and it's something that Parp seems to keep deliberately missing out. And let's be honest here, it's because the more data that comes out with regards to it points it out as being a strain that simply isn't as big a problem as Sturgeon, and the snp have painted out. 

1 hour ago, Baxter Parp said:

There's no gain in milder symptoms if it's 4x more transmissible, dimwit. The NHS will still get swamped with cases if we do nothing.

Now, do you think Boris Johnson and Sajid Javid know what to do when faced with a 4x more infectious strain of disease in the middle of a pandemic that's killed 140,000 people so far? 

Address the point or f**k off.

It's wild how you seem to know how much more transmissable it is, but not much less severe it is. 

The word "if" is doing allot of heavy lifting in your hypothesis. Is it four times as transmissable? 

My point from my original post was that I beleive the the measures are far too harsh considering the data that's been coming out of South Africa and various other countries that have been dealing with Omicron. 

 

[Ayrshire Analytica]

11 hours ago, Granny Danger said:

He’s a troll.  Surprised you can’t spot that!

This is a pretty typical response from the Pete Wishart Brigade.  Surprised there wasn't a "yes da", "zoomer" or any other insult members of the New SNP have come up with for supporters of independence thrown in for good measure.

Of course, anyone who disagrees with the Dear Leader couldn't possibly have any legitimate opinions...

I'd imagine no-one on here kens you from Adam, so who's to say you're not a troll?

Afterall, your party has been trolling the 45%, almost non-stop, since the indyref.

Edited December 23, 2021 by Ayrshire Analytica

[AsimButtHitsASix]

31 minutes ago, Ayrshire Analytica said:

This is a pretty typical response from the Pete Wishart Brigade.  Surprised there wasn't a "yes da", "zoomer" or any other insult members of the New SNP have come up with for supporters of independence thrown in for good measure.

Of course, anyone who disagrees with the Dear Leader couldn't possibly have any legitimate opinions...

I'd imagine no-one on here kens you from Adam, so who's to say you're not a troll?

Afterall, your party has been trolling the 45%, almost non-stop, since the indyref.

Someone come and pick up their da'

[Scott Steiner]

5 hours ago, Baxter Parp said:

There's no gain in milder symptoms if it's 4x more transmissible, dimwit. The NHS will still get swamped with cases if we do nothing.

Now, do you think Boris Johnson and Sajid Javid know what to do when faced with a 4x more infectious strain of disease in the middle of a pandemic that's killed 140,000 people so far? 

Address the point or f**k off.

What a nasty post.  I hope you don't go on like that offline too.

[Antlion]

19 minutes ago, Scott Steiner said:

What a nasty post.  I hope you don't go on like that offline too.

Do you never shut the f**k up, or read a room to know you’re not wanted in real life too?

Edited December 23, 2021 by Antlion

[Zern]

16 hours ago, Grant228 said:

Again though, how severe the omicron variant effects people, is also just, if not more relevant and it's something that Parp seems to keep deliberately missing out. And let's be honest here, it's because the more data that comes out with regards to it points it out as being a strain that simply isn't as big a problem as Sturgeon, and the snp have painted out. 

It's wild how you seem to know how much more transmissable it is, but not much less severe it is. 

The word "if" is doing allot of heavy lifting in your hypothesis. Is it four times as transmissable? 

My point from my original post was that I beleive the the measures are far too harsh considering the data that's been coming out of South Africa and various other countries that have been dealing with Omicron. 

 

You're the one who keeps insisting that it is not a problem yet you have absolutely no idea of the mortality rate for this variant. What data we do have indicates that it is several times more infectious and yet retains the ability to kill a significant proportion of people infected.

To put that into some perspective. If the omicron variant was half as deadly, yet 4 times more liable to spread it would be able to overwhelm our health services simply due to numbers being infected and hospitalised.

This also has knock-on affects with staff isolating due to infection.

The data we have is partial so being cautious is the right thing to do.

I am also very aware the UK government is ideologically opposed to restrictions; that they celebrated "freedom day" and rebelled against what little measures were proposed recently and it only passed due to the Labour Party's support.

This is the same Tory administration that, when this plague began spreading, were talking about herd immunity and keeping everything open.

Since there was no vaccine at the time, that basically amounted to survivor's immunity.

That was their plan.

Let everyone get infected.

I do not trust anyone who thinks Johnson and cabal of braying idiots are worthy of praise. They ignored the science and pursued their ideology. 

Just as they ignored the economics and pursued their brexit ideology.

[Kenneth840]

On 19/12/2021 at 13:28, Zern said:

The SNP government has increased the franchise further and don't appear to have suffered any ill-effects. What constitutes a Scottish citizen includes EU nationals and people resident here. I like that inclusivity and it stands in contrast to the narrower view of what constitutes a UK citizen when it came to the Brexit vote. You've not made clear what would be the advantage in restricting voting rights for this one issue.

The British establishment and Nicola. That appears to be at complete odds with how the establishment actually functions with regard to the SNP and other non-establishment political parties.

The referendum that is planned for 2023 will take place. I'm not sure why you consider this to be in doubt when the Scottish Government has already put in the legislation necessary for this to occur. This is the third time you've mentioned the "Keatings case". Would you like to explain this a bit more, with some references? You obviously consider it to be important.

All elections are plebiscites. Sort of. It's not direct. We vote in parties who have positions on this particular issue the Yes and No, without any middle ground. What is planned for is there to be the question posed directly and Scotland returned a majority in favour of that at the recent election. Westminster like to claim that they are superior and what not, what they often fail to realise is the legal standings. Scottish voting rights are entirely devolved and with the remit of the Scottish Parliament. The referendum act sets out the structure and it's all nice and legal. In both Scotland and the UK.

At least 7 years to become Scottish citizen residency. 

The UK didnt allow EU citizens to vote in the brexit referendum.

Ref 2023 will not take place because the Scotland act will be changed by westminster.  Read the section 30 section. 

peoples action on section 30 was initally supported by the Scottish government then opposed.  they actively opposed the choice of the people deciding whether they had the choice of holding a referendum without westminster pwrmission. 

That is why we need to go down the UN route.