When will indyref2 happen?

[The_Kincardine]

3 minutes ago, lichtgilphead said:

Why do you appear to believe in imposing an arbitrary minimum threshold for engagement in Scottish referenda, whilst not appearing to support a similar threshold in other UK plebiscites or elections?

You completely misunderstand me.

The referendum announced in 2012 by Dim Dave Cameron was probably the most stupid act ever by a British politician and - by Christ - there have been a few.

What DDC did was legitimise the effete, the ignorant, the aggrieved, the stupid, the boors, the neds, the Shinners and the Anglophobes in Scotland.

Yet the combined lot of you still can't get over 50% of the popular vote.

[lichtgilphead]

17 minutes ago, The_Kincardine said:

You completely misunderstand me.

The referendum announced in 2012 by Dim Dave Cameron was probably the most stupid act ever by a British politician and - by Christ - there have been a few.

What DDC did was legitimise the effete, the ignorant, the aggrieved, the stupid, the boors, the neds, the Shinners and the Anglophobes in Scotland.

Yet the combined lot of you still can't get over 50% of the popular vote.

Erm, just to remind you, we were talking about the 1979 & 1997 referendums & your belief in a 40% minimum threshold for the vote to pass. We also had a slight discussion of your appalling grammar.

What does your reply above have to do with the subjects under discussion?

Perhaps you should wait until the cold light of day before replying again.

Edited November 26, 2022 by lichtgilphead

[The_Kincardine]

11 minutes ago, lichtgilphead said:

Erm, just to remind you, we were talking about the 1979 & 1997 referendums & your belief in a 40% minimum threshold for the vote to pass. We also had a slight discussion of your appalling grammar.

What does your reply above have to do with the subjects under discussion?

Perhaps you should wait until the cold light of day before replying again.

Just gone from the particular to the general.  It's fine to do so.  Devolution has been a blight on Scotland.

BTW why the 'cold light of day' trope?

[ICTJohnboy]

 

 

[jakedee]

Dafty.  We all know that 2014 was the gold standard.

Read it again, put the glass down, think a bit. Then maybe you'll get it... dafty.
Edit... noticed it was dealt with... Still a dafty.

[Suspect Device]

Scottish social cohesion and law and order under threat, says police chief | Scotland | The Guardian

Quote

Strikes, constitutional uncertainty and crisis poverty are threatening the cohesion of communities across the country, according to the head of Police Scotland.

Chief constable Sir Iain Livingstone also said planned cuts, which could result in the loss of thousands of officers, would lead to a “fundamental reduction” in the force’s ability to fairly and safely police large events and demonstrations.

Time for the police to start cracking heads then?  

Quote

A police source underlined that Livingstone had not intended to make a political point,

But he did anyway. 

Edited November 26, 2022 by Suspect Device

[renton]

8 hours ago, Donathan said:

The “de facto referendum” is a trap for Sturgeon IMO.

 

The WM government’s response is obvious:

 

If yes parties fail to get 50% + 1: Issue dead in the water for several decades. You’ve had your second referendum and you said no again.

 

If yes parties do get 50% + 1: Referendum what referendum? 
 

 

The absolute best the SG could get out of it (IMO) is that a “yes” vote in the GE *might* persuade a UKG to allow a section 30. But even that’s unlikely IMO 

Not sure it's much of a trap. Whether it's a s30 referendum of using  GE it doesn't exactly take a galaxy size brain to know we won't get a third shot at it. That's not exactly news.

 

[Donathan]

1 hour ago, renton said:

Not sure it's much of a trap. Whether it's a s30 referendum of using  GE it doesn't exactly take a galaxy size brain to know we won't get a third shot at it. That's not exactly news.

 

So what’s your suggestion when the Yes side DO get a majority in the GE and Westminster doesn’t recognise it? 

[DeeTillEhDeh]

Someone was at the meths last night.

Eyebleeding contributions from the Bucks Buffoon.

[renton]

Just now, Donathan said:

So what’s your suggestion when the Yes side DO get a majority in the GE and Westminster doesn’t recognise it? 

Well, since we can't apparently organise a referendum without the permission of a parliament who will not now ever grant one until shortly before the heat death of the Universe, and if WM won't recognise other expressions of a democratic will then the whole thing is pretty much fucked, innit.

[Wee-Bey]

9 hours ago, The_Kincardine said:

Dafty.  We all know that 2014 was the gold standard.

In what way was the 2014 referendum 'gerrymandering' ?

8 hours ago, The_Kincardine said:

Devolution has been a blight on Scotland.

Fortunately, a view only held by a grevience fueled minority in Scotland. 

[btb]

IIRC the criteria for calling Indyref2 was YES consistently polling 55-60%. There was a short lived spike immediately after the Brexit referendum but for the past 4/5 years YES has generally been polling just under 50%.

It's important to see the referral to the UKSC for what it was, an attempt to embarrass the UK government and a ploy to galvanize support for Independence - a gamble but in the face of the "You had your chance, so just stay in your box" attitude of the Unionist parties there was little alternative.

So let's roll the dice...

[Wee-Bey]

35 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

It only requires a few hundred hardcore nutters on either side.

You really believe we don't have that element in the country?

An element willing to organise and wage political violence similar to Northern Ireland ?

No. 

[btb]

4 hours ago, oaksoft said:

Do you think we're somehow uniquely immune to this sort of thing or are we a more moral nation in your eyes?

Amongst all the other countries in the world who were denied democracy we alone will simply meekly accept it?

You have more faith in humans than history suggests is deserving.

 

No he's using his knowledge of history - Ireland had a full scale rebellion in 1798 followed by a century or so of lower level insurgency before the 1916 rebellion, totally different to Scotland.

Not the first time your tendency to be a drama queen has won out.

Edited November 26, 2022 by btb

[Bad Wolf]

14 hours ago, Antlion said:

Worried the bold “Nippy” is stealing your thunder? Christ, you’re unable even to reign in your grievance, abide by the forum rules, and refrain from telling folk who aren’t even in favour of independence to “f**k off”. 

Be fair! He hasn't started a thread about "grey and green yins" for a few months. 

[Bad Wolf]

13 hours ago, Donathan said:

The “de facto referendum” is a trap for Sturgeon IMO.

 

The WM government’s response is obvious:

 

If yes parties fail to get 50% + 1: Issue dead in the water for several decades. You’ve had your second referendum and you said no again.

 

If yes parties do get 50% + 1: Referendum what referendum? 
 

 

The absolute best the SG could get out of it (IMO) is that a “yes” vote in the GE *might* persuade a UKG to allow a section 30. But even that’s unlikely IMO 

Everything that Westminster try is a trap, for the majority of Scottish people, not just Sturgeon. Making it all about her makes you look like a numptie, just as an FYI.

[Suspect Device]

2 hours ago, oaksoft said:

It only requires a few hundred hardcore nutters on either side.

You really believe we don't have that element in the country?

Is Adam Busby still alive?

[Bad Wolf]

12 hours ago, The_Kincardine said:

You completely misunderstand me.

The referendum announced in 2012 by Dim Dave Cameron was probably the most stupid act ever by a British politician and - by Christ - there have been a few.

What DDC did was legitimise the effete, the ignorant, the aggrieved, the stupid, the boors, the neds, the Shinners and the Anglophobes in Scotland.

Yet the combined lot of you still can't get over 50% of the popular vote.

You're a sectarian bigot who lives in Buckinghamshire, wherever that is. Your opinion counts for precisely f**k all.

[Miguel Sanchez]

Is oaksoft still doing his civil disobedience bit? So boring.

[Bad Wolf]

1 hour ago, oaksoft said:

Do you think we're somehow uniquely immune to this sort of thing or are we a more moral nation in your eyes?

Amongst all the other countries in the world who were denied democracy we alone will simply meekly accept it?

You have more faith in humans than history suggests is deserving.

 

I don't think outright violence is a likelihood. I do think that civil disobedience, perhaps in escalating levels as time passes, could occur. Apropos of nothing, Faslane is quite close to Scotland's major centres of population, and the roads are a lot better than they used to be.