git-intae-thum Posted September 3, 2020 Share Posted September 3, 2020 1 minute ago, ICTJohnboy said: I agree, but the current leadership will never have a better chance than they have right now. My only worry is that the Tories might be out on their ears in a VONC within the next 2 to 3 years and a Keir Starmer led Labour Govt, might appear to some to be an acceptable alternative. A VONC any time soon is only going to lead to an even more reactionary RW government at Westminster. Until England sorts all this Brexit rubbish out, Labour are unelectable for a decade at least. But that is an irrelevance. The issue for us is how we get to that next step. If Sturgeon et al gain a majority in 2021, and them fail to lead us to independence.........then it's time for a new Indy party. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted September 3, 2020 Share Posted September 3, 2020 (edited) 12 minutes ago, ICTJohnboy said: I agree, but the current leadership will never have a better chance than they have right now. My only worry is that the Tories might be out on their ears in a VONC within the next 2 to 3 years and a Keir Starmer led Labour Govt, might appear to some to be an acceptable alternative. Doubt it with an 80 seat majority, most that will happen is a reshuffling of the cabinet and a new Tory leader/PM. Edited September 3, 2020 by welshbairn 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTJohnboy Posted September 3, 2020 Share Posted September 3, 2020 5 minutes ago, git-intae-thum said: A VONC any time soon is only going to lead to an even more reactionary RW government at Westminster. Until England sorts all this Brexit rubbish out, Labour are unelectable for a decade at least. But that is an irrelevance. The issue for us is how we get to that next step. If Sturgeon et al gain a majority in 2021, and them fail to lead us to independence.........then it's time for a new Indy party. I can't think of anyone within the SNP better qualified than Sturgeon to lead us to independence. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
git-intae-thum Posted September 3, 2020 Share Posted September 3, 2020 5 minutes ago, ICTJohnboy said: I can't think of anyone within the SNP better qualified than Sturgeon to lead us to independence. I genuinely hope you are correct. What happens when Boris says no? Do we wait until 2025? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTJohnboy Posted September 3, 2020 Share Posted September 3, 2020 8 minutes ago, welshbairn said: Doubt it with an 80 seat majority, most that will happen is a reshuffling of the cabinet and a new Tory leader/PM. I doubt very much if a new Tory PM and new cabinet would change the mood prevailing just now in Scotland. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted September 3, 2020 Share Posted September 3, 2020 Tories have no reason as it stands to grant an independence referendum and a thumping majority does little to change that without significant pressure being exerted from the parliament and civil society. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
git-intae-thum Posted September 3, 2020 Share Posted September 3, 2020 1 minute ago, NotThePars said: Tories have no reason as it stands to grant an independence referendum and a thumping majority does little to change that without significant pressure being exerted from the parliament and civil society. To put it simply....the current leadership are weak. Very very weak. It ain't gonna stand. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTJohnboy Posted September 3, 2020 Share Posted September 3, 2020 If there is a thumping majority come next May, it's hard to see how the govt can refuse Indyref2. Interesting article here from the NS. https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2020/09/boris-johnson-s-independence-problem-england-not-scotland 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
git-intae-thum Posted September 3, 2020 Share Posted September 3, 2020 1 minute ago, ICTJohnboy said: If there is a thumping majority come next May, it's hard to see how the govt can refuse Indyref2. Interesting article here from the NS. https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2020/09/boris-johnson-s-independence-problem-england-not-scotland Very good. But what happens when Boris says no? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTJohnboy Posted September 3, 2020 Share Posted September 3, 2020 9 minutes ago, git-intae-thum said: Very good. But what happens when Boris says no? Civil unrest, martial law? I honestly don't know but it sure as hell will be very interesting! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
git-intae-thum Posted September 4, 2020 Share Posted September 4, 2020 4 minutes ago, ICTJohnboy said: Civil unrest, martial law? I honestly don't know but it sure as hell will be very interesting! That's worrying. But it should not need to be that way. Mibbes instead of involving itself in wokey new labour type crap for the last 6 years the SNP should have been working on legal avenues to independence.......and a financial case to put to the Scottish populace........ That's no been done. That's down tae: Sturgeon. Like I said. Last chance saloon time. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted September 4, 2020 Share Posted September 4, 2020 58 minutes ago, git-intae-thum said: Mibbes instead of involving itself in wokey new labour type crap for the last 6 years the SNP should have been working on legal avenues to independence So right after the referendum, during and in the aftermath of the Brexit campaign, the SNP should have been wanking into the wind looking for a legal avenue for the next indyref. Got it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin_Nevis Posted September 4, 2020 Share Posted September 4, 2020 6 hours ago, git-intae-thum said: That's worrying. But it should not need to be that way. Mibbes instead of involving itself in wokey new labour type crap for the last 6 years the SNP should have been working on legal avenues to independence.......and a financial case to put to the Scottish populace........ That's no been done. That's down tae: Sturgeon. Like I said. Last chance saloon time. That's just "Yes Da" nonsense. Concentrating on a new IndyRef campaign right after the last one would have been political suicide. I'm also unsure what you mean by "wokey new labour type crap". Sturgeon is, by a country mile, the best leadership option within the SNP. No one else even comes close. Cherry is a divisive gobshite, Humza is alright but a bit bland and Kate Forbes needs another couple of years at least in the type of post she's in now. The very fact that the polls are now steadily showing some daylight between Yes/No proves that NS's strategy so far is a sound one. 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paco Posted September 4, 2020 Share Posted September 4, 2020 I find the hatred towards Sturgeon from the Yes Da’s absolutely bizarre. She’s the most popular politician in the UK. That is absolutely remarkable given she’s dedicated her life to breaking up the UK. Her Scottish approval rating is +50 (Johnson is -50). That’s obviously inflated a little bit at the moment with a bit of a pandemic boost but nonetheless they’re almost unprecedented numbers. What exactly do the Yes Da’s want? Joanna Cherry to piss everyone off, become a joke figure, shout daily about independence and sink the idea for a decade? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stellaboz Posted September 4, 2020 Share Posted September 4, 2020 Some people just want to be controversial to try give themselves attention. It's rather pathetic. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
git-intae-thum Posted September 4, 2020 Share Posted September 4, 2020 42 minutes ago, Day of the Lords said: That's just "Yes Da" nonsense. Concentrating on a new IndyRef campaign right after the last one would have been political suicide. I'm also unsure what you mean by "wokey new labour type crap". Sturgeon is, by a country mile, the best leadership option within the SNP. No one else even comes close. Cherry is a divisive gobshite, Humza is alright but a bit bland and Kate Forbes needs another couple of years at least in the type of post she's in now. The very fact that the polls are now steadily showing some daylight between Yes/No proves that NS's strategy so far is a sound one. I agree (and have said so many times) with the wait and give the union enough rope strategy. However the truth is that with regards to independence.....and planning and policy...... we have hardly progressed since the white paper. That is ridiculous after 6 years It is not "yer da" nonsense. It is the truth. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
git-intae-thum Posted September 4, 2020 Share Posted September 4, 2020 9 minutes ago, Paco said: I find the hatred towards Sturgeon from the Yes Da’s absolutely bizarre. She’s the most popular politician in the UK. That is absolutely remarkable given she’s dedicated her life to breaking up the UK. Her Scottish approval rating is +50 (Johnson is -50). That’s obviously inflated a little bit at the moment with a bit of a pandemic boost but nonetheless they’re almost unprecedented numbers. What exactly do the Yes Da’s want? Joanna Cherry to piss everyone off, become a joke figure, shout daily about independence and sink the idea for a decade? 6 years of inactivity with regards to independence. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocketman Posted September 4, 2020 Share Posted September 4, 2020 1 minute ago, git-intae-thum said: 6 years of inactivity with regards to independence. apart from a significant increase in those who state that they support and would vote for independence. thats the one and only clear measurement indicator to confirm that the current strategy is correct and effective. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
git-intae-thum Posted September 4, 2020 Share Posted September 4, 2020 4 minutes ago, Stellaboz said: Some people just want to be controversial to try give themselves attention. It's rather pathetic. What is pathetic is throwing about petty insults in an attempt to shut down debate. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
git-intae-thum Posted September 4, 2020 Share Posted September 4, 2020 Just now, KingRocketman II said: apart from a significant increase in those who state that they support and would vote for independence. thats the one and only clear measurement indicator to confirm that the current strategy is correct and effective. That is great. It means nothing though when Boris says no. I hope there is an alternative plan and I am wrong. 2021 will be an interesting year. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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