When will indyref2 happen?

[Antlion]

4 minutes ago, RedRob72 said:

My point is your Anti-English rabid Scottish Nationalism is just wrong! Most normal people distance themselves from your views!

As normal people distance themselves from your anti-Catholic, bigoted British Nationalist marches. It's just wrong.

[Peppino Impastato]

You know my dad is basically wes, exact same background exact same views, j

Not actually a member of the orange order but describes himself as a loyalist.  I'm asked himthe other day has he eeven been to n Ireland he's passed through once.  He didn't get my point, you can'tbe a loyalist Iif you're Scottish it'saanIissue in another country like me saying I'mkhmer rouge 40 years ago . 

 

I love him dearly and wouldn't swap him but he's a bigot.   Not his fault really he's a product of his environment.   Almost had a fight with him a few days ago drunk in Spain about his views.   Challenged him to justify and explain them the best he could come up with was iddon't want to be governed by catholics,  in 21st century Scotland.   Holy f**k.  

 

That's what you're up against with these people,  am bigotryso Iingrained and deep seated as it'sttaught right from birth overtly and subconsciousLLy. They don't even realise it and lash out when it's challenged through a preprogrammed emotional response. 

 

Tbf he doesn't cross a sea every year to celebrate protestant domination of a small bit of another country annually but the belief system isthe exact same as wes .   Actually on hisside my ffamily were heavily involved with the uvf a couple of generations back.

[Peppino Impastato]

I mean he accepts brexit will be horrendous for Scotland and is wrong, accepts the possibilities of independence and the democratic deficit as part of the UK,  but is opposed to independence as he doesn't want to be governed by catholics.   You think it was 1701, but sadly these people have a mindset that is still stuck there and there'snothing you can do to cconvince them, just got tooutvoted them. 

[RedRob72]

As normal people distance themselves from your anti-Catholic, bigoted British Nationalist marches. It's just wrong.

I've been on here I reckon 4 years. You post me any example of any anti-catholic bigotry that I've quoted and I will delete my account and f*ck off forever!?
British Unionism and British Nationalism are miles apart, you just don't, or are unwilling, to try and understand that. Over to you Pal?

[Peppino Impastato]

British unionsm is British nationalism you absolute clown.  You also March in celebration of protestant supremacy in n Ireland and are a of an organisation catholics can't join and which commemorates the slaughter of catholics hundreds of years ago.  Two things you undeniably are are a bigot and a British nationalist.

Edited October 28, 2016 by Peppino Impastato

[sparky88]

17 hours ago, Gaz FFC said:

The referendum result was 11/20 no and 9/20 yes.

Since then I already know 2 no voters who are yes and you have to wonder how many no voter pensioners have passed.

As I remember it most teenagers voted yes and assuming that trend continues, a lot more will now be of age to vote.

That 9/20 has to definitely be higher now than 2 years ago. Whether it's now 10/20 or even 11/20 is certainly arguable.

Maybe someone with a good memory can help me out with a wee question....

When the referendum was called all those years ago.....what percentage did the opinion polls have yes at?

2 of your friends would vote Yes now? Get that info to sturgeon now, why is she bothering listening to polls that show a lead for no, gaz's pals are the real barometer!

poll data on age groups voting is pretty limited. The Ashcroft poll which said 75% of teenagers voted yes was based on speaking to 13 people, for example. Folk have embellished data with anecdotal evidence, as gaz has just done.

[sparky88]

17 hours ago, Colkitto said:

Miles away? 

The SNP had the commonwealth games, a Tory govt imposing austerity measures left right and centre, a huge very visible campaigning machine, two of the most shrewdest politicians in Europe in charge and could only manage 45%. England voted brexit and the polls still barely moved. 

 How that will change to polls consistently showing 60% yes(which is what will be needed for Sturgeon to feel confident enough to call the vote) before 2020 is beyond me. The best hope for Yessers is that there's an administration at holyrood that can be seen to balance the books well enough when they get more tax raising powers. Only thing is, the SNP don't want them!

[mjw]

Sparky and HB in the same thread?
Nothing to see here,absolutely nothing.

[ScotSquid]

9 hours ago, Todders said:

 

Can you explain the relevance of that link to the post you quoted?

 

It's really not that difficult, even for a moron like you.

Sturgeon used EU nationals as bargaining chips in 2014, by threatening their right to stay in a post Indy Scotland if she didn't get what she wanted on membership. 

[Antlion]

17 hours ago, RedRob72 said:

I've been on here I reckon 4 years. You post me any example of any anti-catholic bigotry that I've quoted and I will delete my account and f*ck off forever!?
British Unionism and British Nationalism are miles apart, you just don't, or are unwilling, to try and understand that. Over to you Pal?

The Orange Order is founded and predicated on religious bigotry. It is predicated on prizing one religious faith over another, and marches through areas with the aim of promoting that denomination. You are a proud defender and admitted supporter of that. You are a bigot. Naturally you downplay that here, as you wouldn't need to delete your account - it would be done for you.

As for "British unionism and British nationalism" being poles apart - please be very specific on exactly what the difference is. As I see it, the union that created a nation is a done deal. The term "unionist" is a misnomer that ceased to be relevant nearly three centuries ago. People who support Scotland's status as a region of the UK nation state are not really "unionists", as they don't support Scotland entering a union, but remaining a bit of a nation state. In fact, they patently are not "unionists", as they don't even want Scotland to remain in a non incorporating union of nations (since England and Wales have told them it's not happening). Of course, if I've missed something and you can spell out the difference between being a British Nationalist (happy to see Scotland remain a region of the UK nation) and being a British Unionist (though curiously willing to see Britain leave political union, and eager for Scotland to go with it because three hundred years ago the kingdom was dissolved) do please explain.

Edited October 28, 2016 by Antlion

[Antlion]

2 hours ago, sparky88 said:

The SNP had the commonwealth games, a Tory govt imposing austerity measures left right and centre, a huge very visible campaigning machine, two of the most shrewdest politicians in Europe in charge and could only manage 45%. England voted brexit and the polls still barely moved. 

 How that will change to polls consistently showing 60% yes(which is what will be needed for Sturgeon to feel confident enough to call the vote) before 2020 is beyond me. The best hope for Yessers is that there's an administration at holyrood that can be seen to balance the books well enough when they get more tax raising powers. Only thing is, the SNP don't want them!

Every administration in Holyrood has balanced the books. They can't not. 

[Baxter Parp]

22 minutes ago, ScotSquid said:

It's really not that difficult, even for a moron like you.

Sturgeon used EU nationals as bargaining chips in 2014, by threatening their right to stay in a post Indy Scotland if she didn't get what she wanted on membership. 

She told the truth and the outcome is the evidence.  The UK government hasn't guaranteed the right to stay for EU nationals despite being asked to do so many times and they've started recording the nationalities of school pupils and company employees.  In what way can an EU national feel safe in the UK post-Brexit?

[bob the tank]

Every administration in Holyrood has balanced the books. They can't not. 

Don't forget that the labour administration handed back £1.5 billion to Westminster that Scotland had no use for.

[JMDP]

It's really not that difficult, even for a moron like you.

Sturgeon used EU nationals as bargaining chips in 2014, by threatening their right to stay in a post Indy Scotland if she didn't get what she wanted on membership. 

Why don't you post as H_B anymore?

[Crossbill]

1 hour ago, bob the tank said:

Don't forget that the labour administration handed back £1.5 billion to Westminster that Scotland had no use for.

 

While beggaring future generations through the use of extortionate PFI schemes.

Edited October 28, 2016 by Crossbill

[renton]

6 hours ago, sparky88 said:

2 of your friends would vote Yes now? Get that info to sturgeon now, why is she bothering listening to polls that show a lead for no, gaz's pals are the real barometer!

poll data on age groups voting is pretty limited. The Ashcroft poll which said 75% of teenagers voted yes was based on speaking to 13 people, for example. Folk have embellished data with anecdotal evidence, as gaz has just done.

The University of Edinburgh did a post referendum polling study taking in something like 8,000 people over three tranches. It remains the best guide, although by no means definitive as to how people voted in 2014:

 

http://centreonconstitutionalchange.ac.uk/sites/default/files/Scottish Referendum Study 27 March 2015.pdf

Edited October 28, 2016 by renton

[Alan Stubbs]

I think after Mundell's slavering being corrected by Downing St, we can safely put to bed the previous argument about May being 'coerced from the inside'. Our man in Westminster doesn't have a fucking scooby what's going on. The branch manager up here will be even further down the pecking order.

[Colkitto]

8 hours ago, sparky88 said:

The SNP had the commonwealth games, a Tory govt imposing austerity measures left right and centre, a huge very visible campaigning machine, two of the most shrewdest politicians in Europe in charge and could only manage 45%. England voted brexit and the polls still barely moved. 

 How that will change to polls consistently showing 60% yes(which is what will be needed for Sturgeon to feel confident enough to call the vote) before 2020 is beyond me. The best hope for Yessers is that there's an administration at holyrood that can be seen to balance the books well enough when they get more tax raising powers. Only thing is, the SNP don't want them!

The Yes vote started below 30% and managed to reach 45% despite a very hostile anti-independence media and a scaremongering No campaign.

The polls have moved and various polls show pro-independence between 48% and 59% depending what poll you go by. Regardless of what poll you believe, the Yes vote is a baw hair from the 50%+ that we require. That by any stretch of the imagination  is not "miles away"

The fabled 60% was a long term prediction of an indyref2 taking place in the next Holyrood term. But Brexit has changed all that and it's unlikely to be achievable before 2021. 

If the polls (more so the private polling by the SNP), would have to be between 53% to 55% for YES before they will take the gamble. Going before 2020 will be a gamble no question of that, but one they have to take in my opinion

 

[RedRob72]

The Orange Order is founded and predicated on religious bigotry. It is predicated on prizing one religious faith over another, and marches through areas with the aim of promoting that denomination. You are a proud defender and admitted supporter of that. You are a bigot. Naturally you downplay that here, as you wouldn't need to delete your account - it would be done for you.

As for "British unionism and British nationalism" being poles apart - please be very specific on exactly what the difference is. As I see it, the union that created a nation is done deal. The term "unionist" is a misnomer that ceased to be relevant nearly three centuries ago. People who support Scotland's status as a region of the UK nation state are not really "unionists", as they don't support Scotland entering a union, but remaining a bit of a nation state. In fact, they patently are not "unionists", as they don't even want Scotland to remain in a non incorporating union of nations (since England and Wales have told them it's not happening). Of course, if I've missed something and you can spell out the difference between being a British Nationalist (happy to see Scotland remain a region of the UK nation) and being a British Unionist (willing to see Britain leave political union, and eager for Scotland to go with it because three hundred years ago the kingdom was dissolved) do please explain.

I've never once claimed to be a member of the Orange Order or an active supporter (including marches) yes I head over in July every year, attending the Antrim district walk, and visit on a number of other occasions throughout the year,I have done since I was a kid. The 12th is very much a time to get together with friends and family these days. It makes none of us religious bigots. You're very misguided. As for British Unionism, a United Kingdom of 4 fine nations, welcoming and embracing, and generally regarded worldwide as a tolerant and friendly society. A Union that is far removed from the far right of the British National Party for example., that was my point, the two are not the same in any way. It won't alter your own prejudices, but that's your issue pal.
The decision to leave the EU still baffles me however.

[DI Bruce Robertson]

I've never once claimed to be a member of the Orange Order or an active supporter (including marches) yes I head over in July every year, attending the Antrim district walk, and visit on a number of other occasions throughout the year,I have done since I was a kid. The 12th is very much a time to get together with friends and family these days. It makes none of us religious bigots. You're very misguided. As for British Unionism, a United Kingdom of 4 fine nations, welcoming and embracing, and generally regarded worldwide as a tolerant and friendly society. A Union that is far removed from the far right of the British National Party for example., that was my point, the two are not the same in any way. It won't alter your own prejudices, but that's your issue pal.
The decision to leave the EU still baffles me however.

Bigot