The Terrible Journalism & Tom English Thread

[HibeeJibee]

Sat 25 Dec 1909 ... Dundee Hibs 6-2 Dundee Wanderers ... (Carrie League) ... ?
Sat 25 Dec 1915 ... Dundee Hibs 0-4 Cowdenbeath ... (Eastern League) ... 1,500
Sat 25 Dec 1920 ... Dundee 4-0 Hamilton Acadmical ... 11,000
Thu 25 Dec 1924 ... Dundee United 3-0 Stenhousemuir ... 4,000
Sat 25 Dec 1926 ... Dundee United 2-0 Rangers ... 15,000
Sat 25 Dec 1937 ... Dundee 2-2 Morton ... 4,500
same day as ↑ ... Dundee United 4-4 Raith Rovers ... 3,000
Sat 25 Dec 1943 ... X

Thu 25 Dec 1947 ... Dundee 1-3 Rangers ... 25,000
Sat 25 Dec 1948 ... Dundee 3-1 Clyde ... 19,000
Sat 25 Dec 1954 ... Dundee 4-1 Raith Rovers ... 13,000
Wed 25 Dec 1957 ... Dundee 2-0 Kilmarnock ... 9,000
Thu 25 Dec 1958 ... Dundee United 4-3 Forfar Athletic ... (Forfarshire Cup SF) ... 1,400
Sat 25 Dec 1965 ... Dundee 4-0 Motherwell ... 8,000
Sat 25 Dc 1971 ... Dundee United 3-2 Dunfermline Athletic ... 3,398

[ayrmad]

46 minutes ago, HibeeJibee said:

There was a "fixture list" from the early years of league football - before 1900 as I recall. However there was, as now, a degree of pre-selection for things like derbies (and also weeks when the Glasgow clubs insisted on cancelling their games to play Glasgow Cup ties: to everyone else's chagrin).

During the 1930s an exceedingly odd policy was that clubs who met on Matchday #1 met again on Matchday #3 (midweek), and clubs who met on Matchday #2 met again on Matchday #7 (midweek)... I assume this was because everyone opened HA or AH, and therefore it ensured everyone had 1 home & 1 away game to fulfil midweek without making the exercise even more complicated. However it meant meeting 2 teams twice in the opening 4.5 weeks, and since the leagues only played 2x you wouldn't see them for the rest of the season.

I've looked up Christmas Day games in Dundee and there were very few examples - only 14 in all of history AFAICS. I'll post the list up below. Perhaps it was less of a holiday than in Glasgow.

Who the f**k wants to spend Christmas in Dundee?

[lionel hutz]

A lot of journalists quite rightly take flak on here, but credit is due for Rob Maclean, who is spot on when he describes:

I can't help but smile at County's continuing football fairytale. That's them back in the top six.

 


Have to admit, I do have a soft spot for County, great set-up up in Dingwall and their fans were great at the Scottish Cup final in 2010

[TheScarf]

This Christmas Day fixture stuff is really boring lads.  Let's get this thread back on track and go back to discussing how fucking stupid the football writers are in this country.  And how most of them are raging ****.

[The Minertaur]

6 minutes ago, TheScarf said:

This Christmas Day fixture stuff is really boring lads.  Let's get this thread back on track and go back to discussing how fucking stupid the football writers are in this country.  And how most of them are raging ****.

Agreed - I'll kick things off with something that was posted in the League 2 forum re Colt teams -

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/malky-mackay-must-backed-pushing-9493304

 

Highlights include -

• What on earth is a Jack Aitchison or a Liam Burt going to learn from playing Selkirk or Civil Service Strollers every week?
• And if it doesn’t happen, Rangers and Celtic should tell them to stuff the Lowland League, pull their Development Squads out of the Under-20 League and set up their own tournaments against the likes of Manchester United and City, PSG and Bayern Munich, where their kids will be pitting their wits against the cream of Europe’s young talent.

 

We want in the lower leagues in Scotland but if we are rejected we'll just set up our own league with all the big teams across Europe  

Edited December 22, 2016 by The Minertaur

[Ranaldo Bairn]

They're absolutely mental.

If you were to take a step back and consider the effect on the game of the OF and dreadful management  at the SFA, SPFL and media outlets, you'd walk away completely.

That's why I love objective neutrals like Tom English who shows a real passion and respect for our game, while obviously ripping the pish right out of the standard dullards we are subjected to.

[Dons_1988]

Agreed - I'll kick things off with something that was posted in the League 2 forum re Colt teams -
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/malky-mackay-must-backed-pushing-9493304
 
Highlights include -

• What on earth is a Jack Aitchison or a Liam Burt going to learn from playing Selkirk or Civil Service Strollers every week?
• And if it doesn’t happen, Rangers and Celtic should tell them to stuff the Lowland League, pull their Development Squads out of the Under-20 League and set up their own tournaments against the likes of Manchester United and City, PSG and Bayern Munich, where their kids will be pitting their wits against the cream of Europe’s young talent.

 
We want in the lower leagues in Scotland but if we are rejected we'll just set up our own league with all the big teams across Europe  

Also read this.

If it wasn't so laughable it would be quite concerning just how much they are trying to paint this as fact that this is the silver bullet for Scottish footballer development.

I think we all realise that any benefit to young footballers pales in comparison to the benefits for the clubs involved.

[TheScarf]

18 minutes ago, Ranaldo Bairn said:

They're absolutely mental.

If you were to take a step back and consider the effect on the game of the OF and dreadful management  at the SFA, SPFL and media outlets, you'd walk away completely.

That's why I love objective neutrals like Tom English who shows a real passion and respect for our game, while obviously ripping the pish right out of the standard dullards we are subjected to.

I know he's not the answer, but that's exactly what Barry Hearn did.  Had one look at the duopoly of the OF and the horrific way the governing bodies promote our game, and gave it a massive nope.

[Jan Vojáček]

1 hour ago, The Minertaur said:

Agreed - I'll kick things off with something that was posted in the League 2 forum re Colt teams -

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/malky-mackay-must-backed-pushing-9493304

 

Highlights include -

• What on earth is a Jack Aitchison or a Liam Burt going to learn from playing Selkirk or Civil Service Strollers every week?
• And if it doesn’t happen, Rangers and Celtic should tell them to stuff the Lowland League, pull their Development Squads out of the Under-20 League and set up their own tournaments against the likes of Manchester United and City, PSG and Bayern Munich, where their kids will be pitting their wits against the cream of Europe’s young talent.

 

We want in the lower leagues in Scotland but if we are rejected we'll just set up our own league with all the big teams across Europe  

This is an interesting point. I dare say, in an ideal world, this would be the perfect outcome...but...

Why would massive clubs like Bayern, PSG, the Manchesters etc want to be in an 'elite' league with Celtic and Rangers. Celtic are no better in the Champions/Europa league than teams like PAOK, Ludogorets etc. They are a provincial club, from a small, uncompetitive country with below average European players. What would *Insert name of future Man United world beater* learn from playing against Liam Burt or Jack Aitchison ever week? Probably very little. 

Then we have Rangers, and as you all know I'm not the Rangers died lolz type on here, but they have been in disarray for years, and only now have made their way back into the top flight. Why would these massive, world leading clubs have any interest at all in letting a recently promoted Scottish side with a woeful first team squad (by European standards) and no solid history of producing world class players into their little elite youth league?

I think a lot of Glasgow based journalists think that the Old Firm are far better than they are. At the end of the day European football is hugely competitive these days and having 50,000 turning up every week no longer makes you a 'big team'. The Old Firm are, to the likes of PSG, Real Madrid and Dortmund, the same as Selkirk or Civil Service Strollers are to the Old Firm clubs. Why can't they see this?

For me if we want more young Scottish players playing the answer is simple. We put a set number of homegrown players in the starting XI/matchday squad rule. You should only be allowed a set number of foreign players over 23. That should force the Old Firm - who lets not forget are massively into youth development according to every article I've read... - into playing these players. I'm sure they won't mind if the results dip a wee bit, so long as they are helping the future of the national team.

[1320Lichtie]

Reserve league too surely

Youngsters getting the chance to go up against Premiership first teamers

Clubs using the loan system more

This colts nonsense is just so fucking mental

[Dundee Hibernian]

The colts entering at League Two level has little to do with youth development, as the likes of McCartney suggests in his paper, but is about maintaining a Celtic/Sevco presence in Scotland IF they ever get an escape route to another league. Don't think I've read that in our press so far, though.

[Ya Bezzer!]

2 minutes ago, Sonsteam of 08 said:

I think a lot of Glasgow based journalists think that the Old Firm are far better than they are.

You know what?  I don't even think they do.  They just turn up for work and dutifully churn out the utter garbage that the Jurassic knuckle scrappers want to read.

They go on about 'caring' for Scottish football.  They only care about their hip pocket.  When it comes down to it they are nothing more than sub par mercenaries who will knock out copy for anyone that lines their palm.

[Jan Vojáček]

4 minutes ago, Ya Bezzer! said:

You know what?  I don't even think they do.  They just turn up for work and dutifully churn out the utter garbage that the Jurassic knuckle scrappers want to read.

They go on about 'caring' for Scottish football.  They only care about their hip pocket.  When it comes down to it they are nothing more than sub par mercenaries who will knock out copy for anyone that lines their palm.

I think that the whole Rangers mess a few years ago scared a lot of Journos and made them realise that it was far easier (and safer) to churn out what their fans want to read. Anything that suggested Rangers were a new club was instantly met with a torrent of abuse, whilst anything suggesting that they were the same club was met with the same response from the other cheek. Lets say the Record went down the line that Rangers were a new club. Their sales would drop dramatically. We know what OF fans are like, so it's more of a business decision than printing the truth. Ethics and Journalism, eh? I've got books and written essays on it and it's a massive murky area.

The Glasgow tabloids will argue that they write for their readers - who will mainly be sofa OF fans. I guess that's understandable, which is why I think that papers like the Guardian actually tend to have better coverage of the more serious issues in Scottish football.

At the end of the day they get paid either way - so getting paid and not getting death threats is probably preferable to getting paid with death threats. 

[Jan Vojáček]

Just now, StandFree03 said:

That's why it's hilarious when one side of the OF claims bias in the Glasgow press and vice versa. Daily Ranger/Rebel, for example. When really they write to keep both sets happy/interested so they can sell papers.

Precisely. From a purely business point of view they've nailed it.

[Dons_1988]

That's why it's hilarious when one side of the OF claims bias in the Glasgow press and vice versa. Daily Ranger/Rebel, for example. When really they write to keep both sets happy/interested so they can sell papers.

Indeed. They also know that a couple of opinion pieces slating one side attracts just as many of them on both sides with one side saying 'spot on big man!' And the other frothing at the mouth with rage and sending them death threats.

[MEADOWXI]

Have they actually looked at the table of the development league recently/

SPFL website and this is how much better than the rest that they are,

 

1		Hibernian	17		5	2	2	18	13		5	1	2	16	8		13	33
2		Motherwell	17		4	2	2	13	8		4	3	2	20	12		13	29
3		Hamilton Accies	17		5	1	3	18	9		3	4	1	17	14		12	29
4		Ross County	15		4	0	2	17	12		5	2	2	15	11		9	29
5		Falkirk	15		5	1	2	20	14		3	3	1	12	7		11	28
6		Partick Thistle	17		3	2	3	14	15		5	1	3	14	12		1	27
7		Celtic	11		1	2	1	6	5		6	0	1	13	5		9	23
8		Dunfermline	16		5	1	3	12	7		2	0	5	7	16		-4	22
9		Rangers	15		3	2	2	10	7		3	1	4	12	16		-1	21
10		Kilmarnock	17		3	2	4	23	21		2	1	5	9	15		-4	18
11		Aberdeen	14		2	2	3	12	18		3	1	3	13	11		-4	18
12		St. Mirren	16		2	2	5	13	20		3	1	3	8	13		-12	18
13		Dundee United	16		3	2	2	16	12		1	3	5	11	21		-6	17
14		Dundee	18		1	4	4	7	11		3	1	5	16	19		-7	17
15		Inverness CT	17		3	3	4	11	15		1	1	5	6	17		-15	16
16		Hearts	17		1	1	5	5	11		2	5	3	13	16		-9	15
17		St. Johnstone	15		1	2	6	5	12		2	3	1	8	7		-6	14

Hardly tearing it apart and so much better they need to be playing Man Utd and Barcelona etc.

[RandomGuy.]

It's fairly obvious we're getting colt sides tbh. No idea why folk are even considering it not happening.

A complete joke which will kill off lower league football in this country

[WaffenThinMint]

1 hour ago, Sonsteam of 08 said:

This is an interesting point. I dare say, in an ideal world, this would be the perfect outcome...but...

Why would massive clubs like Bayern, PSG, the Manchesters etc want to be in an 'elite' league with Celtic and Rangers. Celtic are no better in the Champions/Europa league than teams like PAOK, Ludogorets etc. They are a provincial club, from a small, uncompetitive country with below average European players. What would *Insert name of future Man United world beater* learn from playing against Liam Burt or Jack Aitchison ever week? Probably very little. 

Then we have Rangers, and as you all know I'm not the Rangers died lolz type on here, but they have been in disarray for years, and only now have made their way back into the top flight. Why would these massive, world leading clubs have any interest at all in letting a recently promoted Scottish side with a woeful first team squad (by European standards) and no solid history of producing world class players into their little elite youth league?

I think a lot of Glasgow based journalists think that the Old Firm are far better than they are. At the end of the day European football is hugely competitive these days and having 50,000 turning up every week no longer makes you a 'big team'. The Old Firm are, to the likes of PSG, Real Madrid and Dortmund, the same as Selkirk or Civil Service Strollers are to the Old Firm clubs. Why can't they see this?

For me if we want more young Scottish players playing the answer is simple. We put a set number of homegrown players in the starting XI/matchday squad rule. You should only be allowed a set number of foreign players over 23. That should force the Old Firm - who lets not forget are massively into youth development according to every article I've read... - into playing these players. I'm sure they won't mind if the results dip a wee bit, so long as they are helping the future of the national team.

To be fair to the journalists, in part they are expected to play upon Old Firm fans own delusions of grandeur.

There's one in my work who is adamant that his half are one of the biggest clubs in the world, has one of the biggest supports in the world, and deserves to be treated as such every time the mythical European League/Atlantic League crap starts doing the rounds.

By way of comparison, the Calcutta derby between Mohun Bagan & East Bengal regularly gets crowds of about 80 000 (whilst the rest of their league's clubs only scrape by on a couple of thousand at best - sounds familiar?) but no one outside of India gives a shit about them because they're two big clubs in a diddy league whose support is largely based around appealing to petty sectarianism & whose performances against clubs from outside their wee pond range from competent to embarrassing.

Indeed a rival India Super League has been set up along more professional lines specifically to circumvent the poisonous stranglehold those two sides have on the domestic game & appear to be having some success.

Edited December 22, 2016 by WaffenThinMint

[The Minertaur]

55 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

It's fairly obvious we're getting colt sides tbh. No idea why folk are even considering it not happening.

A complete joke which will kill off lower league football in this country

How is it going to be voted through?  It's not 'clearly obvious' at all. 

[1320Lichtie]

How is it going to be voted through?  It's not 'clearly obvious' at all. 

Because 11-12 in Prem have to vote for it. Then 23 out of 30 in the lower leagues. Then 75 percent overall.

No way lower league clubs will vote this through.

Eta: agree with you actually