The Terrible Journalism & Tom English Thread

[Swello]

6 minutes ago, oneteaminglasgow said:

"How much German football do we all see?"

It sums up perfectly how low the bar is to be seen as a decent  pundit in the Scottish media (as Hartson mystifyingly is) - and as long as you are ex-OF, you can seemingly get away with trotting out any old uninformed pish. In the coming week, folk like Hartson or Bonner will be getting paid *actual money* for gems like "the formbook goes out the window on Old Firm day" or "It will be tight but the green/blue half of the city will be the happier at the full time whistle" or "millions are watching round the world"....

[Stu]

1 hour ago, Malcolm Malcolm said:

That's a pretty extreme example, though. The rest of it is a who's who of Scottish football journalism, and none of them seem that interested in writing. Jackson, unsurprisingly, goes as far as to say that actually being able to write isn't that important, which is probably why it's such a playground for thick dickheads.

Was just throwing it out as a Fitba Hacks related thing rather than to do with inspirations. There is arguably some truth in what Jackson says (who also said he enjoyed writing from when he was at school) - an editor would probably rather have someone that could sniff out a story rather than be able to write it as there will be someone else who can deal with that problem. Well, there was when newspapers had subs and enough staff.

Someone - I think Jonathan Northcroft - brought up Hugh McIlvanney and how he was panicking when his column was two words over!

57 minutes ago, Ludo*1 said:

Former EPL manager of the year? Berahino has acted like a spoilt brat.

I think he was acting like that before Pulis showed up too. 

[Malcolm Malcolm]

10 minutes ago, Stu said:

Was just throwing it out as a Fitba Hacks related thing rather than to do with inspirations. There is arguably some truth in what Jackson says (who also said he enjoyed writing from when he was at school) - an editor would probably rather have someone that could sniff out a story rather than be able to write it as there will be someone else who can deal with that problem. Well, there was when newspapers had subs and enough staff.

Someone - I think Jonathan Northcroft - brought up Hugh McIlvanney and how he was panicking when his column was two words over!

I think he was acting like that before Pulis showed up too. 

Yeah, it was Northcroft – he talked a lot of sense.

It's one thing liking English when you're in third year and another getting to write for a national paper. The problem is that Jackson's attitude creates space for people like Chris Jack to get onto journalism courses and subsequently get platforms to spew out nonsense. Good writers don't generally produce crap, that's the idea, but I do get that they don't always have the personality to get stories. The issues we talk about on here are invariably created by the idea that Scottish sports journalism is sniffing out sensationalistic and often bullshit stories about the Old Firm or confirming the idiotic prejudices and fantasies of the supporters of Rangers and Celtic. A good writer with half a brain would probably not be particularly comfortable with that.

[capt_oats]

2 hours ago, Stu said:

More along the lines of terrible punditry rather than journalism but good grief.

http://www.deadlinenews.co.uk/2016/09/06/watches-german-league-former-wales-star-questions-new-bale-oliver-burkes-switch-red-bull-leipzig/

[Swello]

16 minutes ago, Malcolm Malcolm said:

Yeah, it was Northcroft – he talked a lot of sense.

It's one thing liking English when you're in third year and another getting to write for a national paper. The problem is that Jackson's attitude creates space for people like Chris Jack to get onto journalism courses and subsequently get platforms to spew out nonsense. Good writers don't generally produce crap, that's the idea, but I do get that they don't always have the personality to get stories. The issues we talk about on here are invariably created by the idea that Scottish sports journalism is sniffing out sensationalistic and often bullshit stories about the Old Firm or confirming the idiotic prejudices and fantasies of the supporters of Rangers and Celtic. A good writer with half a brain would probably not be particularly comfortable with that.

On the point of "good writers" vs "people who can sniff out a story" - there should be room for both as they are different and there is a market for both styles. I personally enjoy reading decent comment pieces more than transfer gossip or old firm puff - but in place of decent commentary, a lot of the papers go with partisan pish (yer Chris Jack type of thing) or cliche ridden ex-player stuff (probably ghosted). It would be good if more space was given to the ones that can write - and there are lots of good writers out there...

[capt_oats]

13 minutes ago, Swello said:

On the point of "good writers" vs "people who can sniff out a story" - there should be room for both as they are different and there is a market for both styles. I personally enjoy reading decent comment pieces more than transfer gossip or old firm puff - but in place of decent commentary, a lot of the papers go with partisan pish (yer Chris Jack type of thing) or cliche ridden ex-player stuff (probably ghosted). It would be good if more space was given to the ones that can write - and there are lots of good writers out there...

On that point, I'm interested to see how Nutmeg magazine pans out. By all accounts their pitch is to counter the partisan pish & ghost written player columns.

[Swello]

Just now, capt_oats said:

On that point, I'm interested to see how Nutmeg magazine pans out. By all accounts their pitch is to counter the partisan pish & ghost written player columns.

I backed Nutmeg in their Kickstarter and I'm waiting for my copy to hit the doormat on Friday to see what it's like - I hope it works out...

[Ludo*1]

I backed Nutmeg in their Kickstarter and I'm waiting for my copy to hit the doormat on Friday to see what it's like - I hope it works out...

Are they not charging £10 or something crazy per issue?

Considering you can get an issue of FourFourTwo for more than half that, I can't see it being too successful beyond the first couple of issues.

[Stu]

4 minutes ago, Ludo*1 said:

Are they not charging £10 or something crazy per issue?

Considering you can get an issue of FourFourTwo for more than half that, I can't see it being too successful beyond the first couple of issues.

 

Yeah, although mine works out about £7 as I was in the Kickstarter campaign. Bit annoyed it was meant to arrive last Saturday and will be a week later considering the cost, although it seems they're blaming Royal Mail. They're even going to suffer the ultimate embarrassment - not getting the copies out before JD Sports finally release this season's St Mirren kit.

Edited September 7, 2016 by Stu

[jessmagic]

2 hours ago, Swello said:

It sums up perfectly how low the bar is to be seen as a decent  pundit in the Scottish media (as Hartson mystifyingly is) - and as long as you are ex-OF, you can seemingly get away with trotting out any old uninformed pish. In the coming week, folk like Hartson or Bonner will be getting paid *actual money* for gems like "the formbook goes out the window on Old Firm day" or "It will be tight but the green/blue half of the city will be the happier at the full time whistle" or "millions are watching round the world"....

"There will have been a lot of banter in workplaces leading up to the game."

[jessmagic]

11 minutes ago, Ludo*1 said:

 

Are they not charging £10 or something crazy per issue?

Considering you can get an issue of FourFourTwo for more than half that, I can't see it being too successful beyond the first couple of issues.

 

 

18 minutes ago, Swello said:

I backed Nutmeg in their Kickstarter and I'm waiting for my copy to hit the doormat on Friday to see what it's like - I hope it works out...

Yeah Nutmeg will be interesting. I believe it is meant to be like a Scottish version of the Blizzard - currently waiting for my copy as well.

Although expensive - I would be willing to pay for it on an on-going basis as I believe that it is important that the many good writers about are  properly showcased. We really need to have a suitable alternative away from "Peter Lovenkrands tips McKay to come good in old firm showdown."

[drs]

14 minutes ago, jessmagic said:

"There will have been a lot of banter in workplaces leading up to the game."

Well you wouldn't expect Hartson, Gough, Bonner, Ferguson or their ilk to say something like "domestic abuse in Scotland increases every time they play, maybe we should look into why people who are failures as men seem intent on hitting their partners as some sort of release after watching a game of football. Who are these people?"

http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/news/14461401.Old_Firm_domestic_abuse_soared_by_43_per_cent_on_derby_day/

 

[jessmagic]

5 minutes ago, drs said:

 

5 minutes ago, drs said:

Well you wouldn't expect Hartson, Gough, Bonner, Ferguson or their ilk to say something like "domestic abuse in Scotland increases every time they play, maybe we should look into why people who are failures as men seem intent on hitting their partners as some sort of release after watching a game of football. Who are these people?"

http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/news/14461401.Old_Firm_domestic_abuse_soared_by_43_per_cent_on_derby_day/

 

HYPE HYPE HYPE.

 

whitewash whitewash whitewash

Edited September 7, 2016 by jessmagic

[The Saintee]

Not sure it qualifies as journalism really but has anybody heard the Dean Saunders story about Brian Clough that went viral?

Totally made up apparently.

[7-2]

1 hour ago, Malcolm Malcolm said:

The issues we talk about on here are invariably created by the idea that Scottish sports journalism is sniffing out sensationalistic and often bullshit stories about the Old Firm or confirming the idiotic prejudices and fantasies of the supporters of Rangers and Celtic. A good writer with half a brain would probably not be particularly comfortable with that.

This is why I have no respect for any journalist or broadcaster covering the Scottish game. If there is any genuine ability in them they've sold it to the devil for a career based on basically promoting sectarianism and two teams at the expense of the Scottish game. If they are allowed some criticism of them it'll be minor and brief and will soon be followed with twice as much praise to counter it. If they were genuine professionals they'd be desperate to get stuck into the true stories of bigotry and corruption but they don't. They just toe the party line in exchange for a quiet life and presumably decent remuneration. Sod the lot of them.

[Malcolm Malcolm]

23 minutes ago, The Saintee said:

Not sure it qualifies as journalism really but has anybody heard the Dean Saunders story about Brian Clough that went viral?

Totally made up apparently.

Yup - what a p***k. Can you imagine how Brian Clough's family feel about this?

Saunders was a shit pundit for the Welsh during the Euros as well. He cringed his way through the England game which they should have won, acting as if they were lucky to have maintained some kind of respectable result. He also thought they were going out early and planned accordingly: 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-36695131 

http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/euro2016/dean-saunders-airport-parking-fine-to-go-to-charity-after-wales-exit-from-euro-2016-a3291266.html

I would've charged the twat the full fee. Does anyone think their ordinary Welsh mate would've got this treatment if he or she had done the same?

Edited September 7, 2016 by Malcolm Malcolm

[sergie's no1 fan]

3 hours ago, Ludo*1 said:

Former EPL manager of the year? Berahino has acted like a spoilt brat.

 

3 hours ago, Dons_1988 said:

Yeah can't agree with that. Berahino (from the outside looking in) seems to be getting his just rewards for spitting the dummy out.

Fair enough I know Berahino acted like a spoilt brat but still, would you trust Pullis to develop Burke?

The problem for Pullis is when his shit festing tactics stop working and the team aren't scoring goals what do you do. Don't think the WBA fans are happy with him.

Anyway off topic, Hartson is a fud .

The Joe Miller Derek Ferguson Old Firm face off was a disgrace, I'm guessing Thursday night will be the same.

 

[Malcolm Malcolm]

1 hour ago, Swello said:

On the point of "good writers" vs "people who can sniff out a story" - there should be room for both as they are different and there is a market for both styles. I personally enjoy reading decent comment pieces more than transfer gossip or old firm puff - but in place of decent commentary, a lot of the papers go with partisan pish (yer Chris Jack type of thing) or cliche ridden ex-player stuff (probably ghosted). It would be good if more space was given to the ones that can write - and there are lots of good writers out there...

Get yourself a man (or woman) who can do both. God knows there's plenty of talented people who want to become journalists.

[The Master]

5 hours ago, Stu said:

More along the lines of terrible punditry rather than journalism but good grief.

http://www.deadlinenews.co.uk/2016/09/06/watches-german-league-former-wales-star-questions-new-bale-oliver-burkes-switch-red-bull-leipzig/

How much German football do we see? Er...plenty, on BT...the broadcaster that pays the bulk of Hartson's media appearance fees.

[Monkey Tennis]

7 hours ago, Malcolm Malcolm said:

Yeah, it was Northcroft – he talked a lot of sense.

It's one thing liking English when you're in third year and another getting to write for a national paper. The problem is that Jackson's attitude creates space for people like Chris Jack to get onto journalism courses and subsequently get platforms to spew out nonsense. Good writers don't generally produce crap

I'd agree with that.  Poverty of expression generally accompanies poverty of thought.

I've got high hopes that this Nutmeg publication might provide something different and necessary.