Second World War 'what if?'....

[shuggz]

As a lover of WW2 history,alternate history,and sci-fi, can I suggest a wonderful series of books by Harry Turtledove(7 in all) simply called World War.Basically,half way through the war the aliens invaded, causing a bit of a problem for all the combatants. This led to all sorts of weird and wonderful collaborations between enemies who all now had another front to fight,but still kept going with the our "own war"

Very interesting,but does take ages to read the lot.

[shuggz]

Further to Aberdeen air raids,try this.....

https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=z8RRvQYE6Eh4.kO6dzF4En4RM&usp=sharing

[Mr Rational]

'The weapons of choice' series of books by John Birmingham was also a good read, Philadelphia Project meets Hitler type of thing.

Total holiday trash but enjoyable none the less.

[Sergeant Wilson]

As a lover of WW2 history,alternate history,and sci-fi, can I suggest a wonderful series of books by Harry Turtledove(7 in all) simply called World War.Basically,half way through the war the aliens invaded, causing a bit of a problem for all the combatants. This led to all sorts of weird and wonderful collaborations between enemies who all now had another front to fight,but still kept going with the our "own war"

Very interesting,but does take ages to read the lot.

Just you tell us what happens at the end.

[Roland B]

As a lover of WW2 history,alternate history,and sci-fi, can I suggest a wonderful series of books by Harry Turtledove(7 in all) simply called World War.Basically,half way through the war the aliens invaded, causing a bit of a problem for all the combatants. This led to all sorts of weird and wonderful collaborations between enemies who all now had another front to fight,but still kept going with the our "own war"

Very interesting,but does take ages to read the lot.

Complete guess here, Harry TURTLEDOVE is a made up name?

Oh, forgot to add, who reads this puerile shite?

Sarge was there! Aliens were not.

[YassinMoutaouakil]

It's more of a Weimar what if, but if the Communists and Social Democrats hadn't been stubborn b*****ds/murderers and agreed to compromise then it's unlikely that the Nazis would ever have ended up in power.

[The OP]

Fatherland by Robert Harris is a guid book. The h-words won the war and a German detective is slowly uncovering the holocaust because a lot of the key players are being murdered.

[Roland B]

It's more of a Weimar what if, but if the Communists and Social Democrats hadn't been stubborn b*****ds/murderers and agreed to compromise then it's unlikely that the Nazis would ever have ended up in power.

Social democrats were the Nazis?

[Fotbawmad]

Probably the change in plan from attacking the RAF directly both on airfields and trying to destroy radar stations to the "Blitz" of the major cities. Hitler was a fan of "symbolic" attacks over militarily sound strategy throughout the war, and hoped bombing the tits out of the capital would sap morale. An absolute failure of a plan, and one which I believe Goering was equally invested in. It's massively debatable whether or not this would have made a long term difference, as completely subduing the RAF wouldn't be easy, a sea-borne invasion may not have succeeded and the German losses may not have been sustainable. However, fighting a war on two fronts was absolutely ludicrous and doomed to fail.

The Russian invasion was a clusterfuck of epic proportions. The timing was poor and almost entirely dependent on the three Army Groups converging on Moscow in a matter of weeks, a massive task even in ideal conditions. Early progress was ridiculously quick, too quick indeed for supplies to keep pace. Also the atrocities committed by the advancing forces were on a level not yet seen. Germans considered eastern europeans sub-human, and treated them as such. Russians adopted a "scorched earth" policy, leaving the Germans massively dependent on supply lines. IIRC rail supply was near impossible due to the different gauge sizes. By the time you throw in the atrocious weather, the whole thing was a disaster.

I vaguely remember reading somewhere that Russia's two worst winters on record came during The invasions of Napoleon and Hitler.

As for the failure to implement new weapons technology, I'd consider the opposite. Hitler was obsessed with "super weapons" to the detriment of ensuring they were adequately supplied with run of the mill stuff. Germany's failure to develop and mass produce a reliable heavy bomber was another f**k up. They general used Heinkel HE-111s which carried comparatively limited payloads.

Germany basically "Hibsed" it during the Second World War.

The reason why British cities were bombed was in retaliation for bombing German cities. Before, only military targets were bombed, but this was replaced with "area bombing". With the aim of turning a civilian population against their government. However, it ended achieving the exact opposite as it did in London. The only positive aspect of deliberately targeting civilians in a war is that it makes them less likely to want to go to war in the future. How many people would have been in favour of the Iraq war had they known Saddam could bomb us?

You have to understand why Hitler attacked Russia at the time. In a speech in late 1941 he said "Already in 1940 it became increasingly clear from month to month that the plans of the Kremlin were aimed at the domination. and thus the destruction of Europe. Only a blind person could fail to see the military build up of unique world historical proportions was being carried out". Just look at what the Soviets were doing prior to that point. In 1939 they attack Finland; in 1940 them bombed Sweden; invaded Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania then forced Romania to surrender to them. So I'm not exactly sure about the badly timed aspect of it, but I don't deny that the advancement was too quick leaving his supply lines stretched thin and seeing any kind of retreat as a sign of weakness. That said, the decision making by Stalin was many times worse and was the main reason so many Russians died in WW2. He had a "not one step back policy". Meaning anyone who retreated would be executed. He also passed an executive order stating anyone who surrendered or was captured by the enemy would be regarded as a traitor. We now know after the fall of the Soviet Union that there was a indeed a plan to expand the Soviet Empire into Western Europe.

[The OP]

Social democrats were the Nazis?

The National Socialists were the Nazis. The social democrats were a moderate left-wing party and they were the largest party in the Weimar Republic until the Nazis overtook them in the 1930s.

[Roland B]

The National Socialists were the Nazis. The social democrats were a moderate left-wing party and they were the largest party in the Weimar Republic until the Nazis overtook them in the 1930s.

You are correct, in my eagerness to post I made a boo boo.

For this, I apologise.

I'm a mess.

[Half Rice Half Chips]

As a lover of WW2 history,alternate history,and sci-fi, can I suggest a wonderful series of books by Harry Turtledove(7 in all) simply called World War.Basically,half way through the war the aliens invaded.....

Stopped reading your post at that point.

Ps what is "alternate history"? If that means history that didn't happen, would that not just be fiction?

[Roland B]

Stopped reading your post at that point.

You got that far?

[Sergeant Wilson]

You got that far?

It's further than I get with any of his.

[Roland B]

It's further than I get with any of his.

[Hillonearth]

As a lover of WW2 history,alternate history,and sci-fi, can I suggest a wonderful series of books by Harry Turtledove(7 in all) simply called World War.Basically,half way through the war the aliens invaded, causing a bit of a problem for all the combatants. This led to all sorts of weird and wonderful collaborations between enemies who all now had another front to fight,but still kept going with the our "own war"

Very interesting,but does take ages to read the lot.

I've read them - they're entertaining although not exactly well written.

The kicker in it is that the pace of change in the alien race's society was really slow, so they turn up expecting to be fighting knights in armour or whatever. They therefore get a bit of a shock when they end up going up against T34s, Spitfires and eventually A-bombs.

Also turns out that the spice ginger is fatally addictive to them, so half their army ends up out their tits on gingernuts or Crabbie's.

Like I said, not that well written...

The guy Turtledove - he's American so I imagine it's his real name - seems to have made a career out of counterfactual historical fiction. There's other series dealing with the South winning the US Civil War, Japan invading Hawaii and so on.

[Roland B]

It's further than I get with any of his.

[/quote

You, are a real hero. Is he a warlord? In the internet sense?

I'm not sure, away to ponder on chips.

[Roland B]

I've read them - they're entertaining although not exactly well written.

So an alien race that has travelled light years across the universe has difficulty with a spitfire?

The kicker in it is that the pace of change in the alien race's society was really slow, so they turn up expecting to be fighting knights in armour or whatever. They therefore get a bit of a shock when they end up going up against T34s, Spitfires and eventually A-bombs.

Also turns out that the spice ginger is fatally addictive to them, so half their army ends up out their tits on gingernuts or Crabbie's.

Like I said, not that well written...

The guy Turtledove - he's American so I imagine it's his real name - seems to have made a career out of counterfactual historical fiction. There's other series dealing with the South winning the US Civil War, Japan invading Hawaii and so on.

[54_and_counting]

he would have conquered Russia without doubt.

not a chance imo, nevermind they were woefully unprepared for the russian winter, but as someone said above, stalin had literally millions upon millions of expendable people he'd have thrown at the german war machine

if Hitler hadnt even looked east, i think Stalin might have let him do one over europe,

[welshbairn]

The reason why British cities were bombed was in retaliation for bombing German cities.

Whit? They started it surely?

We now know after the fall of the Soviet Union that there was a indeed a plan to expand the Soviet Empire into Western Europe.

Source please.