By election updates

[cdhafc1874]

Lib Dems GAIN Brecon & Radnorshire

 

Liberal Democrats 13,826

Conservatives 12,401

Brexit Party 3,331

Labour 1,680

MRLP 334

UKIP 242

 

Maj 1,425

 

--

 

Brexit party standing costing the Tories the seat pretty much.

 

Turnout down, Plaid & Greens not standing & Labour vote % down double figures helps the Lib Dems over the line.

 

Big [emoji23] to UKIP being beaten into last place by the Monster Raving Looney Party too!

 

 

[HTG]

James Cleverly came away with some belters on Breakfast this morning. 

Cited the "antics" of Plaid and Greens plus the Lib Dems throwing the kitchen sink at the seat as reasons for winning narrowly. Accepted that "antics" happen but he doesn't like them. 

2 things. There are a number of Tory MPs in Scotland who are there thanks to Labour's candidate selection and refusal to canvass. Secondly, with a parliamentary majority of 2, why wouldn't you throw your own kitchen sink into getting a result? 

[WhiteRoseKillie]

4 minutes ago, HTG said:

James Cleverly came away with some belters on Breakfast this morning. 

Cited the "antics" of Plaid and Greens plus the Lib Dems throwing the kitchen sink at the seat as reasons for winning narrowly. Accepted that "antics" happen but he doesn't like them. 

2 things. There are a number of Tory MPs in Scotland who are there thanks to Labour's candidate selection and refusal to canvass. Secondly, with a parliamentary majority of 2, why wouldn't you throw your own kitchen sink into getting a result? 

Makes you wonder, right enough. I couldn't see the logic in standing the fella whose dishonesty and disregard for the law caused the by-election in the first place.

Oh, and they haven't got a majority at all. Confidence and Supply, remember? This need hammering home at every opportunity.

[ICTJohnboy]

Brilliant result for a party standing on a remain/2nd referendum ticket in a Leave constituency.

[WhiteRoseKillie]

5 minutes ago, ICTJohnboy said:

Brilliant result for a party standing on a remain/2nd referendum ticket in a Leave constituency.

Good result for the Fibs, poor for the Tories, as expected for Labour. Funny as fúck UKIP trailing in behind the MRLP.

It will definitely be interesting to see which seats Queen Jo's merry band of local councillors stand aside in. I get the feeling she has delusions of relevance.

[ICTJohnboy]

7 minutes ago, WhiteRoseKillie said:

Good result for the Fibs, poor for the Tories, as expected for Labour. Funny as fúck UKIP trailing in behind the MRLP.

It will definitely be interesting to see which seats Queen Jo's merry band of local councillors stand aside in. I get the feeling she has delusions of relevance.

 When it comes to duplicitous the Lib Dems are in a class of their own, but anything that causes the Boris brigade to lose seats is fine by me.

There must be some soul searching debates taking place within higher echelons of the Labour Party right now.

 

 

Edited August 2, 2019 by ICTJohnboy

[WhiteRoseKillie]

4 minutes ago, ICTJohnboy said:

 When it comes to duplicitous the Lib Dems are in a class of their own, but anything that causes the Boris brigade to lose seats is fine by me.

There must be some soul searching debates taking place within higher echelons of the Labour Party right now.

 

 

Labour were never going to win this one - would have made sense not to stand, but policy is always to field a candidate.

I still feel that, in a GE campaign, Labour will emerge triumphant. My biggest fear is burnout from trying not to lose it on doorsteps where people are buying this "brexit first, foremost and to the exclusion of all else" bullshit that the Media are gleefully colluding with. We have the facts, we have a strong (and, I believe, about to be strengthened) manifesto, and we have grass-roots numbers. What I, and I fear many others, don't have is an ability to cure stupid.

[Highlandmagyar 2nd Tier]

3 minutes ago, WhiteRoseKillie said:

Labour were never going to win this one - would have made sense not to stand, but policy is always to field a candidate.

I still feel that, in a GE campaign, Labour will emerge triumphant. My biggest fear is burnout from trying not to lose it on doorsteps where people are buying this "brexit first, foremost and to the exclusion of all else" bullshit that the Media are gleefully colluding with. We have the facts, we have a strong (and, I believe, about to be strengthened) manifesto, and we have grass-roots numbers. What I, and I fear many others, don't have is an ability to cure stupid.

What Labour dont have is a competent leader.

[Fullerene]

The Brexit party gets votes despite having no manifesto.

The Tory party got votes for trying to be more like the Brexit party than the Brexit party.

The UKIP party got votes by pretending to be the real Brexit party

The Liberal Democrats party probably has a manifesto but does anybody care apart from the fact that they are not the Brexit party.

The Labour party got some votes without having any clear idea of who they are.

What gets me is how the Monster Raving Loony Party got votes without having to call itself "The Real Monster Raving Loony Party".
 

[WhiteRoseKillie]

1 hour ago, Highlandmagyar 2nd Tier said:

What Labour dont have is a competent leader.

Defeated a Government finance bill - first occurrence ever.

Defeated the Government's flagship policy (brexit) three times - and by record margins.

Succeeded in having the Government held in contempt of Parliament - another historic first.

Four years after Cameron started the ad hominem "for God's sake, man - go!" attacks, he's still in place, and ready to see off Johnson.

Has achieved the above against the backdrop of a well-accepted media bias, continual smears from not only the Tories but from within his own Party, and an absolute snake of a Deputy who undermines the leader at every opportunity.

Oh, and with a relatively paltry 245ish seats. Not all of which are reliable when voting. See previous point about the PLP.*

What exactly would you expect a "competent" leader of the opposition to do?

*Note - PLP, NOT membership. I can honestly say that I have spoken to three members in the last four years who think Jeremy should stand down. Two of them felt he should do it for the good of his own mental health given the relentless abuse he gets, and both wanted McDonnel to replace him whic doesn't suggest the policies are the problem.

Edited August 2, 2019 by WhiteRoseKillie

[NotThePars]

Theresa May demanding Corbyn leave after she’d been comprehensively seen off should’ve been framed in the media as the icing on her clownshoe leadership but obvs they just couldn’t do it and had to frame it as a powerful rebuke. Cowards.

[WhiteRoseKillie]

Just now, NotThePars said:

Theresa May demanding Corbyn leave after she’d been comprehensively seen off should’ve been framed in the media as the icing on her clownshoe leadership but obvs they just couldn’t do it and had to frame it as a powerful rebuke. Cowards.

I had no need to record that - it is etched upon my memory as the the ultimate expression of a premiership where she was in denial from day one.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

Defeated a Government finance bill - first occurrence ever.
Defeated the Government's flagship policy (brexit) three times - and by record margins.
Succeeded in having the Government held in contempt of Parliament - another historic first.
Four years after Cameron started the ad hominem "for God's sake, man - go!" attacks, he's still in place, and ready to see off Johnson.
Has achieved the above against the backdrop of a well-accepted media bias, continual smears from not only the Tories but from within his own Party, and an absolute snake of a Deputy who undermines the leader at every opportunity.
Oh, and with a relatively paltry 245ish seats. Not all of which are reliable when voting. See previous point about the PLP.*
What exactly would you expect a "competent" leader of the opposition to do?
*Note - PLP, NOT membership. I can honestly say that I have spoken to three members in the last four years who think Jeremy should stand down. Two of them felt he should do it for the good of his own mental health given the relentless abuse he gets, and both wanted McDonnel to replace him whic doesn't suggest the policies are the problem.

The problem though is that on the biggest issue he has sat on the fucking fence for the past 3 years.

[Guest Bob Mahelp]

38 minutes ago, WhiteRoseKillie said:

Defeated a Government finance bill - first occurrence ever.

Defeated the Government's flagship policy (brexit) three times - and by record margins.

Succeeded in having the Government held in contempt of Parliament - another historic first.

Four years after Cameron started the ad hominem "for God's sake, man - go!" attacks, he's still in place, and ready to see off Johnson.

Has achieved the above against the backdrop of a well-accepted media bias, continual smears from not only the Tories but from within his own Party, and an absolute snake of a Deputy who undermines the leader at every opportunity.

Oh, and with a relatively paltry 245ish seats. Not all of which are reliable when voting. See previous point about the PLP.*

What exactly would you expect a "competent" leader of the opposition to do?

*Note - PLP, NOT membership. I can honestly say that I have spoken to three members in the last four years who think Jeremy should stand down. Two of them felt he should do it for the good of his own mental health given the relentless abuse he gets, and both wanted McDonnel to replace him whic doesn't suggest the policies are the problem.

How about taking a definitive and decisive stance on the biggest issue affecting the country since the 2nd world war ?

These 'achievements' mentioned above are hardly landmark victories, given that it's fairly widely accepted that this current Tory shambles are the worst government the UK has ever had.

The cult of Corbyn may satisfy the fanatics, but if there's a GE in the next few months Labour will undoubtedly disappear up its own arsehole. 

 

[Guest]

Corbyn, while coming across as pretty useless, certainly isn't helped by a media who detest him and are terrified by the idea of socialism and at the same time he's also the victim of a co-ordinated attack emanating from within his very own party.

He's basically damned if he does and damned if he doesn't.

For him to go against his own principles and feverishly back a 2nd referendum might ingratiate himself to the PLP and many of the champagne socialists, however he'd then be selling many of his own members and supporters right down the river, especially in the traditional Labour heartlands of the North of England.

Brexit really is a screw up on so many levels.

Having said all this, an "unsure" stance is exactly the problem when strong and direct leadership is required and unfortunately Corbyn appears to be completely incapable of this.

Although a Nationalist myself, I find this all to be quite sad as I do quite like Corbyn and also McDonnell and have a lot of time for much of their politics......

[Bishop Briggs]

23 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

58 minutes ago, WhiteRoseKillie said:

Defeated a Government finance bill - first occurrence ever.
Defeated the Government's flagship policy (brexit) three times - and by record margins.
Succeeded in having the Government held in contempt of Parliament - another historic first.
Four years after Cameron started the ad hominem "for God's sake, man - go!" attacks, he's still in place, and ready to see off Johnson.
Has achieved the above against the backdrop of a well-accepted media bias, continual smears from not only the Tories but from within his own Party, and an absolute snake of a Deputy who undermines the leader at every opportunity.
Oh, and with a relatively paltry 245ish seats. Not all of which are reliable when voting. See previous point about the PLP.*
What exactly would you expect a "competent" leader of the opposition to do?
*Note - PLP, NOT membership. I can honestly say that I have spoken to three members in the last four years who think Jeremy should stand down. Two of them felt he should do it for the good of his own mental health given the relentless abuse he gets, and both wanted McDonnel to replace him whic doesn't suggest the policies are the problem.

The problem though is that on the biggest issue he has sat on the fucking fence for the past 3 years.

Did you read Labour's last election manifesto? It's here - https://labour.org.uk/manifesto/negotiating-brexit/.

"Labour accepts the referendum result".

"Labour recognises that leaving the EU with ‘no deal’ is the worst possible deal for Britain and that it would do damage to our economy and trade. We will reject ‘no deal’ as a viable option and, if needs be, negotiate transitional arrangements to avoid a ‘cliff-edge’ for the UK economy."

Corbyn has stuck by that manifesto.

Labour's fanatical Remain MPs won't accept the referendum result and have campaigned against the manifesto's policies.

With "friends" like Sir Keir Starmer, John McDonnell and Tom Watson, who needs enemies?

[NotThePars]

John McDonnell and Tom Watson famously comparable members of Corbyn’s party

[WhiteRoseKillie]

2 hours ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

2 hours ago, WhiteRoseKillie said:

Defeated a Government finance bill - first occurrence ever.
Defeated the Government's flagship policy (brexit) three times - and by record margins.
Succeeded in having the Government held in contempt of Parliament - another historic first.
Four years after Cameron started the ad hominem "for God's sake, man - go!" attacks, he's still in place, and ready to see off Johnson.
Has achieved the above against the backdrop of a well-accepted media bias, continual smears from not only the Tories but from within his own Party, and an absolute snake of a Deputy who undermines the leader at every opportunity.
Oh, and with a relatively paltry 245ish seats. Not all of which are reliable when voting. See previous point about the PLP.*
What exactly would you expect a "competent" leader of the opposition to do?
*Note - PLP, NOT membership. I can honestly say that I have spoken to three members in the last four years who think Jeremy should stand down. Two of them felt he should do it for the good of his own mental health given the relentless abuse he gets, and both wanted McDonnel to replace him whic doesn't suggest the policies are the problem.

The problem though is that on the biggest issue he has sat on the fucking fence for the past 3 years.

Except he absolutely fucking hasn't. And if he had, it would make no difference, because guess what? He doesn't dictate policy! Who'd have thought it, eh?

If you want to argue that Labour have sat on the fence, let's have that debate. The personalisation of the narrative, the idea that all Labour need to do to sweep to success is to bin Corbyn, is pathetic - and buying into it reflects badly on anyone doing so.

[WhiteRoseKillie]

2 hours ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

2 hours ago, WhiteRoseKillie said:

Defeated a Government finance bill - first occurrence ever.
Defeated the Government's flagship policy (brexit) three times - and by record margins.
Succeeded in having the Government held in contempt of Parliament - another historic first.
Four years after Cameron started the ad hominem "for God's sake, man - go!" attacks, he's still in place, and ready to see off Johnson.
Has achieved the above against the backdrop of a well-accepted media bias, continual smears from not only the Tories but from within his own Party, and an absolute snake of a Deputy who undermines the leader at every opportunity.
Oh, and with a relatively paltry 245ish seats. Not all of which are reliable when voting. See previous point about the PLP.*
What exactly would you expect a "competent" leader of the opposition to do?
*Note - PLP, NOT membership. I can honestly say that I have spoken to three members in the last four years who think Jeremy should stand down. Two of them felt he should do it for the good of his own mental health given the relentless abuse he gets, and both wanted McDonnel to replace him whic doesn't suggest the policies are the problem.

The problem though is that on the biggest issue he has sat on the fucking fence for the past 3 years.

 

2 hours ago, Bob Mahelp said:

How about taking a definitive and decisive stance on the biggest issue affecting the country since the 2nd world war ?

These 'achievements' mentioned above are hardly landmark victories, given that it's fairly widely accepted that this current Tory shambles are the worst government the UK has ever had.

The cult of Corbyn may satisfy the fanatics, but if there's a GE in the next few months Labour will undoubtedly disappear up its own arsehole. 

 

 

2 hours ago, WATTOO said:

 

The biggest issue facing the country? Do you believe that, or have you been conditioned into thinking of it in those terms?

Is it as important as the NHS? Social Housing? Education? Social care? Massive tax fraud? The rise of gang culture and breakdown of communities with no facilities, police cover or fire protection?

Really? Fucking really?

This Government's policies have, according to reputable sources, resulted in over 120,000 early deaths. What's the running Butcher's Bill for Brexit?

They're actually killing us and you're worried whether Business will continue as normal? I'll give you a hint here - it fucking won't. And it won't make a jot of difference to the Johnsons, Javids, Patels and Mays of this world. They will simply leave what's left of Society to collapse while they fúck off to the sun to spend more time with our money.

[HTG]

1 minute ago, WhiteRoseKillie said:

 

 

The biggest issue facing the country? Do you believe that, or have you been conditioned into thinking of it in those terms?

Is it as important as the NHS? Social Housing? Education? Social care? Massive tax fraud? The rise of gang culture and breakdown of communities with no facilities, police cover or fire protection?

Really? Fucking really?

This Government's policies have, according to reputable sources, resulted in over 120,000 early deaths. What's the running Butcher's Bill for Brexit?

They're actually killing us and you're worried whether Business will continue as normal? I'll give you a hint here - it fucking won't. And it won't make a jot of difference to the Johnsons, Javids, Patels and Mays of this world. They will simply leave what's left of Society to collapse while they fúck off to the sun to spend more time with our money.

You're fighting the good fight for Labour where you live - we all get that you're out of options. Labour have completely fucked it in Scotland. When it came to the crunch they jumped right into the blue bed. England needs Labour. Scotland needs out.