Scotland's Campaign - Cold Light of Day

[ShawfieldAggro]

Im glad your memory is back NP. In what respect, attacking-wise as you put it, have things 'been better than in years'?? As selection policy among the front players go, there is absolutely zero cohesion or approach play between any of the options for front four positions. Our piss-poor goals tally reflects this. One goal on Thursday came from a Forrest passenger-ball to Ritchie with f**k all intent behind it. The other a misjudged tackle playing in Fletcher. Its not up to me to decide what you enjoy, but that for me is an enormous step backwards from the type of play we had from Miller chasing everything down and bringing his midfield into play. Naismith is arguably the only player from the starting team in Thursday capable of this, yet is handed a vital role at 10 instead of Maloney which can hardly be left open while he goes hunting down centre-halves and fullbacks. This would have given us the chance to gain and retain some ball in the Polish half. But seeing as Fletcher benefitted from a misjudged tackle, and as a result scored, the decision is vindicated......us that how we are doing this now???

[Gordopolis]

Im glad your memory is back NP. In what respect, attacking-wise as you put it, have things 'been better than in years'?? As selection policy among the front players go, there is absolutely zero cohesion or approach play between any of the options for front four positions. Our piss-poor goals tally reflects this. One goal on Thursday came from a Forrest passenger-ball to Ritchie with f**k all intent behind it. The other a misjudged tackle playing in Fletcher. Its not up to me to decide what you enjoy, but that for me is an enormous step backwards from the type of play we had from Miller chasing everything down and bringing his midfield into play. Naismith is arguably the only player from the starting team in Thursday capable of this, yet is handed a vital role at 10 instead of Maloney which can hardly be left open while he goes hunting down centre-halves and fullbacks. This would have given us the chance to gain and retain some ball in the Polish half. But seeing as Fletcher benefitted from a misjudged tackle, and as a result scored, the decision is vindicated......us that how we are doing this now???

It's true that if you strip the two flash of genius finishes out of Thursday's game then we weren't very good. We weren't awful, but we weren't anywhere near qualification-good. As i posted before, we need to find a way of playing that let's us carve out simple chances. If we could start scoring a mix of straightforward goals as well as sclaffs/worldies, then it certainly wouldn't hurt.

[pandarilla]

Im glad your memory is back NP. In what respect, attacking-wise as you put it, have things 'been better than in years'?? As selection policy among the front players go, there is absolutely zero cohesion or approach play between any of the options for front four positions. Our piss-poor goals tally reflects this. One goal on Thursday came from a Forrest passenger-ball to Ritchie with f**k all intent behind it. The other a misjudged tackle playing in Fletcher. Its not up to me to decide what you enjoy, but that for me is an enormous step backwards from the type of play we had from Miller chasing everything down and bringing his midfield into play. Naismith is arguably the only player from the starting team in Thursday capable of this, yet is handed a vital role at 10 instead of Maloney which can hardly be left open while he goes hunting down centre-halves and fullbacks. This would have given us the chance to gain and retain some ball in the Polish half. But seeing as Fletcher benefitted from a misjudged tackle, and as a result scored, the decision is vindicated......us that how we are doing this now???

Fletcher held the ball up pretty well on Thursday - it wasn't all about his goal (which was sublimely taken).

[pandarilla]

Our defence was the problem. We conceded too many goals - and twice let the Poles back into the game. I don't know if we have better individual defenders at this level or if Strachan and his team are not coaching the defence well enough. But we need Irish-like stability.

Yes we've been hardly brilliant going forward but we've managed to get goals in most of the important games. If you score 2 in the big games and don't win then you've got defensive problems. International football is tight.

[Gordopolis]

Our defence was the problem. We conceded too many goals - and twice let the Poles back into the game. I don't know if we have better individual defenders at this level or if Strachan and his team are not coaching the defence well enough. But we need Irish-like stability.

Yes we've been hardly brilliant going forward but we've managed to get goals in most of the important games. If you score 2 in the big games and don't win then you've got defensive problems. International football is tight.

Breaks my heart that we're saying stuff like that. Only as far back as June, it looked like we'd broken their campaign.

[pandarilla]

Breaks my heart that we're saying stuff like that. Only as far back as June, it looked like we'd broken their campaign.

I just meant in a defensive sense. They've been more solid it seems.

[Gordopolis]

I just meant in a defensive sense. They've been more solid it seems.

No need to clarify - you're absolutely right.

[MarkoRaj]

Hope the 'play ra yoofs' morons are watching the u21s. Gauld, Christie, Paterson, all out of their depth at top end 21s level. Gauld actually just got sent off for a ridiculously bad tackle.

I take no pleasure in the above by the way, just think people need to get a grip before screeching about Strachan 'playing favourites'

[RandomGuy.]

Just me whos more frustrated by the Poland results than the Georgia one? Leading 2-1 in both games with 15 minutes to go yet finish those two games with only two points. Success in holding onto those leads would've seen us sitting on 16 points, joint with Poland, and only two behind Ireland going into this.

The loss away to Georgias one of those things that happen, Germany lost in Ireland FFS.

[MarkoRaj]

Just me whos more frustrated by the Poland results than the Georgia one? Leading 2-1 in both games with 15 minutes to go yet finish those two games with only two points. Success in holding onto those leads would've seen us sitting on 16 points, joint with Poland, and only two behind Ireland going into this.

The loss away to Georgias one of those things that happen, Germany lost in Ireland FFS.

Our inability to hold on to a result for very long has been our major undoing this campaign and one that has to be addressed for the wcq. We seem to have a mental fragility when it comes to seeing games out, every team seems to have had chances immediately after we scored and you can never be at all confident of us holding on. Even against Georgia at home where we dominated the whole game they still had chances to get back into it at the end

[Savage Henry]

Hope the 'play ra yoofs' morons are watching the u21s. Gauld, Christie, Paterson, all out of their depth at top end 21s level. Gauld actually just got sent off for a ridiculously bad tackle.

I take no pleasure in the above by the way, just think people need to get a grip before screeching about Strachan 'playing favourites'

The Under 21s are also lumbered with a dinosaur for a head coach. As is evidenced by his team going out to kick France off the pitch.

[RandomGuy.]

Frances youth teams are absolutely ridiculous anyway

[Guest DAVIDB69]

I do feel one of the criteria for selection has to be actually playing games.

Despite the mess the Netherlands are in van Persie dropped as not playing enough club games.

Think it's a criteria we should apply as a rule in next campaign

[Skyline Drifter]

How so?Obviously, there's no science involved in attempting to measure or quantify such things. I would say though, that we really have pretty much broken even in this regard.

On my phone so not retyping a list right now but the OP listed obvious examples of good and bad luck. There were a lot more of the latter although I am not necessarily claiming it to be exhaustive.

[Monkey Tennis]

On my phone so not retyping a list right now but the OP listed obvious examples of good and bad luck. There were a lot more of the latter although I am not necessarily claiming it to be exhaustive.

Just had a look and it's a good thing you're not claiming it's exhaustive, because it doesn't mention Ireland hitting the bar in the closing moments at Parkhead or Poland hitting the inside of a post late on in Warsaw.

The paragraph on luck also cites Irish late goals that some would laud as evidence of a certain 'never say die' quality, rather than dismiss as down to fortune.

There's also a bizarre claim about the German third (among the others) at Hampden benefiting from luck. Our failure to hold leads against the Poles also appears in this section of the post, as if down purely to cruel fate.

I know that we both agree that Strachan is overstating the extent of the part played by luck. We seem to disagree though about just how outrageous his claims are. I see them as based on nothing at all.

Without very big and clear slices of luck at Ibrox and the Aviva, we would have been finished in the group even earlier.

[No_Problemo]

Just had a look and it's a good thing you're not claiming it's exhaustive, because it doesn't mention Ireland hitting the bar in the closing moments at Parkhead or Poland hitting the inside of a post late on in Warsaw. The paragraph on luck also cites Irish late goals that some would laud as evidence of a certain 'never say die' quality, rather than dismiss as down to fortune. There's also a bizarre claim about the German third (among the others) at Hampden benefiting from luck. Our failure to hold leads against the Poles also appears in this section of the post, as if down purely to cruel fate.I know that we both agree that Strachan is overstating the extent of the part played by luck. We seem to disagree though about just how outrageous his claims are. I see them as based on nothing at all.Without very big and clear slices of luck at Ibrox and the Aviva, we would have been finished in the group even earlier.

Umm at the Aviva Ireland's goal should never of stood in the first place....

I also think suggesting teams hitting the bar, post as good luck is stretching it a bit.

If we did get more bad luck than bad it's only marginal though.

[Monkey Tennis]

Umm at the Aviva Ireland's goal should never of stood in the first place....

I also think suggesting teams hitting the bar, post as good luck is stretching it a bit.

If we did get more bad luck than bad it's only marginal though.

I'd actually agree. I don't think luck has been a particularly big factor in our campaign at all.

I cringe however when Strachan continually refers to Germany's deflected first against us, while ignoring the deflections and own goals that benefited us.

Then again, unlike Strachan, I'm not attempting to divert attention from my own shortcomings.

[Skyline Drifter]

Just had a look and it's a good thing you're not claiming it's exhaustive, because it doesn't mention Ireland hitting the bar in the closing moments at Parkhead or Poland hitting the inside of a post late on in Warsaw. The paragraph on luck also cites Irish late goals that some would laud as evidence of a certain 'never say die' quality, rather than dismiss as down to fortune. There's also a bizarre claim about the German third (among the others) at Hampden benefiting from luck. Our failure to hold leads against the Poles also appears in this section of the post, as if down purely to cruel fate.I know that we both agree that Strachan is overstating the extent of the part played by luck. We seem to disagree though about just how outrageous his claims are. I see them as based on nothing at all.Without very big and clear slices of luck at Ibrox and the Aviva, we would have been finished in the group even earlier.

The Irish clipped the top of the bar on the way over. Fair enough I forgot it though. I still have no memory of the Poles hitting woodwork late on but happy to believe you.

Ireland's late late goals in Georgia and Germany were scarcely deserved. I dont think its unreasonable to include their gaining those results as bad luck for us.

I dont see whats bizarre about noting Germany's third at Hampden went in off a post rather than bouncing back into play off it. Germany thoroughly deserved their win at Hampden but the fact remains two of their three goals came via them getting the benefit of a bounce off the post and the other took a massive wrongfooting deflection.

And whilst I will concede you the point on the first Polish game the second comes via another big deflection off Hanley and then the benefit of a post rebound.

As for you refernces to Ibrox and Aviva, the actual goal against Georgia was fortunate but we thoroughly deserved the win. Our goal in Ireland was lucky but theirs was offside.

I stand by the belief that our bad luck in this group comfortably outweighed our good luck. Its still not acceptable for Strachan to blame it and ignore all the good luck completely.

[theminsk]

Hope Chris Martin never gets a call up again .. Hope brown chucks it make Naisy captain

[Gordopolis]

Hope Chris Martin never gets a call up again .. Hope brown chucks it make Naisy captain

Martin did okay, but if mobility is a prerequisite for a Scotland place, he's totally unsuited. I can't see how he'd offer anything other than a wasted jersey vs a decent team.