vikingTON Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 I'm not saying that there wasn't such a campaign, but surely the poor education of the time and an entirely different sense of belonging also played a huge part in the mistaken belief that they were doing the right thing by fighting for king/queen and country? I'm sure many bowed to pressure, but I also believe that many thought they were doing the right thing when enlisting. We are better educated now insofar as social norms have changed and different views are tolerated more readily, except when in debate with yourself of course. My limited conversations with my grandfather, who fought at the Somme, engendered a sense of duty on his part, not to mention many regrets. In what way are citizens actually "better educated" in relation to enlisting in a war than a hundred years ago? The average person is better educated than then, sure, but that education involves English grammar, algebra, IT skills obviously - none of that relates to the decision of "Go to war or be the social outcast shitebag who doesn't." The idea that we have "better norms" only rests on the fact that the UK has had 70 years without having to give a shit about serious military conflict. That's how "better norms" are made - as they were in the late 19th Century in the UK - and those were brought down as soon as the Germans were no longer portrayed as allies but rather a giant, bogey-man threat to the Empire. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRob72 Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 Maybe time to give Corbyn a break eh ? he's there tonight at the RAH for the RBL annual festival of remembrance and probably feels really uncomfortable stood there within Her Majesty's audience suited and booted with a Poppy in his button hole? Hope he's f*ckin choking on it!! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 What do you mean 'doesn't play a part in formal education'? The 5-16 education of any UK citizen covers next to nothing that would be of any credible use in "curbing the desire to volunteer in war". Not even through a loose interpretation of what people learn from the fields covered. No subject such as, well, even The First World War itself is actually taught in anything more than fleeting detail within a schoolroom. You massively overrate both the retention of school knowledge among adults and the quality of 'pass the exam' explanations in a school for moral guidance. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P45 Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 I assume we're all tuned in to BBC1 this evening? Match of the Day isn't on until 11pm. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel Sanchez Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 Match of the Day isn't on until 11pm.Thanks for warning me it's on later than usual 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YassinMoutaouakil Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 I wear a poppy, but if it ever became mandatory to wear one I would stop wearing it^^^Doesn't know what "mandatory" means. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE KING Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 Maybe time to give Corbyn a break eh ? he's there tonight at the RAH for the RBL annual festival of remembrance and probably feels really uncomfortable stood there within Her Majesty's audience suited and booted with a Poppy in his button hole? Hope he's f*ckin choking on it!! Listen to the bigot who thinks that people who don't wear a poppy can't contemplate on the horror of war, what a fuckin brain washed fuktard. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE KING Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 Martin McGuinness disappointing the bigots on Twitter tonight.... "I work & meet with many people who wear the Poppy. Never would I dream of insulting them.Dishonourable to disrespect those don't". #Respect 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandarilla Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 The 5-16 education of any UK citizen covers next to nothing that would be of any credible use in "curbing the desire to volunteer in war". Not even through a loose interpretation of what people learn from the fields covered. No subject such as, well, even The First World War itself is actually taught in anything more than fleeting detail within a schoolroom. You massively overrate both the retention of school knowledge among adults and the quality of 'pass the exam' explanations in a school for moral guidance. Every department I've taught in has spent a lot of time covering the war. The horrors of it are very much part of the curriculum. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antti Niemi Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 And folk today are much more vacuous and cowardly tbf. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoBNob Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 The difference, as I've stated, is that the UK hasn't had a credible issue at stake since 1945. Falklands? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin_Nevis Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 Falklands? I think he already used the word 'credible' tbh 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urban Gorilla Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 I was thinking more about the poor wee apostrophe. My grandfather joined The Royal Scots Fusiliers before conscription on the basis that 'It was something to do and better than being at home'. He served in France and Belgium before being shot through the hand. After the war he (and and a friend who was a policeman from Chapelhall) joined the Black and Tans and was in South Ireland for a couple of years before coming back and working in the pits in Lanarkshire. Group think? Aye sure......hence the 'pals regiments' etc etc but it isn't the full story. Black and Tans in South Ireland eh? You must be so proud. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTG Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 Watched the clip of the widows who lost husbands in Iraq and it dawned on me that Blair should be at this do tonight. History is going to deal him a particularly unkind hand - the lying b*****d. Some if the folk they interview for these shows are the best advert you can have to realise what a shower of fuckin arseholes these Britain First morons are. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE KING Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 Black and Tans in South Ireland eh? You must be so proud. Sadly he is , he often makes reference to it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urban Gorilla Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 Watched the clip of the widows who lost husbands in Iraq and it dawned on me that Blair should be at this do tonight. History is going to deal him a particularly unkind hand - the lying b*****d. Some if the folk they interview for these shows are the best advert you can have to realise what a shower of fuckin arseholes these Britain First morons are. Whilst I agree with you ,you would be extremely naive if you think it was Blair's decision and his alone. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urban Gorilla Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 Sadly he is , he often makes reference to it. Seriously? Jeezo. Proud of war crimes 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin_Nevis Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 Incidentally, I'd highly recommend 'Forgotten Voices of the Great War' as some readjng for anyone interested in the subject. It's a collection of diary entries from those who endured the misery of WW1 and touches on the mentality of the British non - fighting population . Women were encouraged to hand white feathers to any man not wearing a uniform and those who didn't go to war were frequently ostracised. A similar war situation now would probably see herds of Facebook full time mummies sending white feather memes to non combatants. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Kincardine Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 The 5-16 education of any UK citizen covers next to nothing that would be of any credible use in "curbing the desire to volunteer in war". Not even through a loose interpretation of what people learn from the fields covered. No subject such as, well, even The First World War itself is actually taught in anything more than fleeting detail within a schoolroom. You massively overrate both the retention of school knowledge among adults and the quality of 'pass the exam' explanations in a school for moral guidance. Fatuous bollocks, chap. My (now) 16 year old covered The Great War in as much detail as you can in 2 periods a week for two terms and her wee sister is currently going through the same course. Having discussed it with them both (and having coached the older one through GCSE History) I think the school did a pretty good job in putting The Big War in context rather than simply cramming them to pass exams. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supermik Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 Well no, it really hasn't. This 'horrors of war' speel doesn't actually form part of formal education anyway, so isn't linked to the 'education' of the population. Only a minority think about that on a regular basis. Massacres like the Holocaust are actually detached from the history of the surrounding war. And the oldies were reeling off the back of the Boer War, so the enthusiasm for a good fight is exaggerated. The difference, as I've stated, is that the UK hasn't had a credible issue at stake since 1945. Despite that, you can clearly see similar social forces at work over complete non-events: the original topic being a good example Place that attitude alongside a credible security threat to the UK and you'd get a comparable 1914 effect. There'd be more open criticism as well, but significant enough to shout down an official line? Highly doubtful. Spiel. you are a highly (paid by us proper tax paying workers) educated person. Better luck next time. Champ! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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