jmothecat Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 First world blairite problems thread for this pish. First world problem in a first world country, except apparently on Sundays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strichener Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 It looks like the UK Government's attempts to liberalise Sunday trading laws in England and Wales, bringing them into line with Scotland, are going to be blocked by a House of Commons vote in which the SNP MPs will vote against the change. It seems to me intuitively ridiculous that the SNP are preventing England from having the same laws as Scotland. Their argument is to the effect that, according to Usdaw, if Sunday trading is relaxed in England, overtime payments will become less generous across the UK as large employers change their practices. This doesn't make sense. They're under no legal obligation to provide an overtime premium to Scottish Sunday workers as it is. If the wage pressures were so great surely they'd have already eliminated that premium for Scottish workers to account for the longer trading hours. Also, the changes to these laws don't force any shop to stay open any longer than it does at the moment. It simply permits them to. It doesn't even guarantee restrictions on working on a Sunday in and of itself; it merely dictates when the store can be open. Warehouse staff and those not in service-facing positions are totally unaffected. What do people think about this? I think Sunday trading laws are a total fucking nonsense and that there are better ways to protect employee's rights than to deny consumers access to a Tesco in Methyr Tydvil or Milton Keynes after 6pm. It's politics and nothing to do with Sunday Trading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl Cort's Hamstring Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 Does the browsing hour fall within the permitted 6 hour window or is it in addition to it? In addition to it. The shops aren't legally trading, just letting people in for a mooch around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 First world problem in a first world country, except apparently on Sundays. "Only on Sundays" I think you meant. My reasoning is based from when working in London. I worked in theatre so evenings Monday to Saturday plus matinees Wednesday and Saturday minimum, in reality a lot more. But Sundays were sacrosanct, in every union negotiation we had we had not working Sundays as the red line. Volunteers for double time maybe, but that's it. Sunday was the only day I could meet up with friends working outside theatre and have a proper day away from work without risk of a desperate phone call for help, and for locals to have a family get together. We should have one day a week when the minimum possible people have to work, and those who do should do it voluntarily at double time at least to discourage employers from opening when they don't have to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlion Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 The repellent Digby "I'm above party politics" Jones was screeching at Hannah Bardell on the Daily Politics, "HOW WOULD YOU LIKE IT IF AN ENGLISH MP CAME UP TO EDINBURGH AND TOLD YOU WHAT TO DO ABOUT SCOTTISH TRADING LAWS?!" I was disappointed she didn't point out to the ignorant tosser that it would equally impossible for a Scottish MP to vote on a devolved matter. Oh, and it was OK to Tory backbench MPs to oppose changes to trading laws, but not SNP ones, because according to Jones, that's principle, not politics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poet of the Macabre Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 Can't believe folk actually shop at Waitrose, it's absolutely shite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Connolly Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 Can't believe folk actually shop at Waitrose, it's absolutely shite. This is just wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fudge Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 Disappointed the SNP voted against this. Seems like a GIRUY to the Tories more than anything else Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lichtgilphead Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 Disappointed the SNP voted against this. Seems like a GIRUY to the Tories more than anything else Did the SNP actually vote, or just threaten to vote? This will turn out like the fox-hunting vote down South - repeat the lie often enough, and people will believe it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmothecat Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 "Only on Sundays" I think you meant. My reasoning is based from when working in London. I worked in theatre so evenings Monday to Saturday plus matinees Wednesday and Saturday minimum, in reality a lot more. But Sundays were sacrosanct, in every union negotiation we had we had not working Sundays as the red line. Volunteers for double time maybe, but that's it. Sunday was the only day I could meet up with friends working outside theatre and have a proper day away from work without risk of a desperate phone call for help, and for locals to have a family get together. We should have one day a week when the minimum possible people have to work, and those who do should do it voluntarily at double time at least to discourage employers from opening when they don't have to. Whilst people in essential services, the service industry, travel, retail, media etc just have to put up with not only working Sundays but not being able to buy food after work. It seems utterly ludicrous that one specific aspect of the retail industry is restricted from working Sundays when no other industries have to face these restrictions. It isn't as if the shops are closed on Sundays, simply that they are only open for a shorter period of time. People who work in these shops don't get Sundays off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmothecat Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 Can't believe folk actually shop at Waitrose, it's absolutely shite. It's considerably better than any other supermarket other than arguably M&S IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlion Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 Did the SNP actually vote, or just threaten to vote? This will turn out like the fox-hunting vote down South - repeat the lie often enough, and people will believe it. They did not vote. The Tory whip counted the rebels and decided to shelve the vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doulikefish Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 Disappointed the SNP voted against this. Seems like a GIRUY to the Tories more than anything else As was pointed out there was no vote and its easier to blame the snp than the tory rebels,id even heard Labour would have voted against it than the usual abstain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lichtgilphead Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 They did not vote. The Tory whip counted the rebels and decided to shelve the vote. Exactly, but give it a month or two and all we will hear is that the SNP voted it down. Just like the fox-hunting non-vote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ad Lib Posted November 10, 2015 Author Share Posted November 10, 2015 No surprise to see this cretin avoid the Scotland Bill debate and highlight some pointless SNP pish. Absolute roaster I am not "avoiding" the Scotland Bill. If you have any questions about it, feel free to ask them. I think the Scotland Bill largely delivers what was agreed in the Smith Commission. It's not what I want out of a constitutional settlement, but it's what was agreed to. With more and people forced to work anti social hours Sunday can be the only day family and friends can meet up, although that one day is rapidly going out the window. Forcing yet more people to work longer hours on Sundays just so 9-5 office workers can shop for more than 6 hours a day should be resisted. Why should Sunday be the family day? Why should the government dictate to families what day they should be meeting up? Why Sunday? If people's concern was that people are being forced to work 7 days a week, why not replace Sunday Trading Laws with a statutory right for an employee to pick a specific day of the week they will not work, with exceptions for a genuine determining occupational requirement like teachers? If Sunday is so special, most people will still choose it. It's politics and nothing to do with Sunday Trading. Exactly. This is my objection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bairn Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 Sunday trading hours are an essential tool to protect abused retail workers and should be retained at all costs. Furthermore, the Scottish government should seek to reintroduce them in Scotland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmothecat Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 Sunday trading hours are an essential tool to protect abused retail workers and should be retained at all costs. Furthermore, the Scottish government should seek to reintroduce them in Scotland. Why not pass actual laws to protect them rather than restricting, bit not stopping, trading on a Sunday? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 Why should Sunday be the family day? Why should the government dictate to families what day they should be meeting up? Why Sunday? If people's concern was that people are being forced to work 7 days a week, why not replace Sunday Trading Laws with a statutory right for an employee to pick a specific day of the week they will not work, with exceptions for a genuine determining occupational requirement like teachers? If Sunday is so special, most people will still choose it. Because Sunday is the one day in the week when most people don't work, so it's the easiest one to regulate. Most people don't work 7 days a week, if your family and friends work in different occupations and shifts it would be good to have one day you can meet up. People aren't usually that connected that they'll have a conference to choose what day to have off before signing a job contract. Just have a standard law that means double time for Sunday working and everyone will be happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fudge Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 Sunday trading hours are an essential tool to protect abused retail workers and should be retained at all costs. Furthermore, the Scottish government should seek to reintroduce them in Scotland. Is this 'serious debate' Mr Bairn or 'I troll to compensate for my offline difficulties' Mr Bairn typing? The English laws are stuck in the 1950's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poet of the Macabre Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 It's considerably better than any other supermarket other than arguably M&S IMO. Overpriced guff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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