doulikefish Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 Wonder if this has passed Farrons (remember him) 5 tests to vote for the bombing?? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invergowrie arab Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 "Across the UK families &workplaces, are divided on what to do on Syria and ISIL yet not a single SNP MP or MSP has a different view from NS?" Neil Findlay, what a c**t. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 She is capable of leading her party, while Corbyn isn't. Not sure what is difficult to understand on that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandarilla Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 I'm getting so pissed off listening to Corbyn spelling out all kinds of dire consequences in the event of a yes to bombing vote. The result is more or less a foregone conclusion anyway. Yesterday he had the power to avert that by whipping his party into a no vote - but no, he couldn't run the risk of inflicting further damage on his already discredited, divided party. So much for his principals the man is a pathetic waste of space That's way too harsh. He's stuck between a rock and a hard place. The whip system is a necessary evil in British democracy. MPs were elected to come to decisions, not to follow blindly whatever the leadership wants. He's making the case as strongly as he can and at the same time trying to get control of the parliamentary party. What he's trying to do is incredibly difficult (herding right wing cats) and will take years. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invergowrie arab Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 He also has absolutely no moral authority to whip anyone 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandarilla Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 He also has absolutely no moral authority to whip anyone Agreed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invergowrie arab Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 Lib dems yearning for relevance and confirm they will again act as lightning rods for the Tories 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Rational Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 Tories will put party before logic and rationale country. Labour MPs will put their own perceived self interest, entrenched right wing politics and hatred of Corbyn before logic and rationale. I hope these c***s get deselected in the dirtiest sort of infighting imaginable. Understand now why I want Labour to die? Plenty of good people in the party, I know a few who desperately want to help those less fortunate, improve their community etc, they are not too different from me actually. But the party is no longer fit for purpose, it's not a political party at the moment and it certainly no longer represents the working man. Time for it to be put out of its misery. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 That's way too harsh. He's stuck between a rock and a hard place. The whip system is a necessary evil in British democracy. MPs were elected to come to decisions, not to follow blindly whatever the leadership wants. He's making the case as strongly as he can and at the same time trying to get control of the parliamentary party. What he's trying to do is incredibly difficult (herding right wing cats) and will take years. If people of any political persuasion want to be Parliamentarians but don't want to be subject to the whip system then there's an easy answer, stand as an independent. But don't get elected on a party political ticket and then start complaining about the way in which party politics operate. He also has absolutely no moral authority to whip anyone What utter rubbish. He has just recently been elected as a party leader through an exhaustive ballot system; that gives him the moral authority within his party. I would imagine most if not all CLPs have a position on this issue; I'd love to see any MP who votes in favour of air strikes against their CLP's position deselected. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevthedee Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 Fukin no voters. We will be a target now..... aye let's bomb... kill 1 terrorist kill 10 innocent civilians.. utter stupidity..... well nawbags, bask in it Still blaming no voters for everything and anything,what a clown. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 Understand now why I want Labour to die? Plenty of good people in the party, I know a few who desperately want to help those less fortunate, improve their community etc, they are not too different from me actually. But the party is no longer fit for purpose, it's not a political party at the moment and it certainly no longer represents the working man. Time for it to be put out of its misery. Very easy and simplified position to take from a Scottish perspective, not from a UK one. Whilst I want independence I am not presently immune to the politics of rUK; for that matter neither will an independent Scotland be when that time comes. The Labour Party membership has just recently shown that they are heading in the right direction by electing the only candidate who was not an establishment clone, there biggest problem was that the candidate in question is lacking in many qualities. I would agree that many Labour MPs don't represent the working man (and woman) but it will be easier to reform the party at grass roots level than to knock it down and start again. I can understand why so many folk in Scotland are anti-Labour, I am one of them, but don't underestimate the impact or the intent of the ordinary party member who put their faith in Corbyn despite the demonisation of him and the open threats of the probable splits during the leadership election. Maybe he will prove he doesn't have the calibre but the membership have issued a clear statement of intent by electing him in the first place. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlion Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 He also has absolutely no moral authority to whip anyone A pretty untenable position for a leader in a parliamentary democracy in which the party whip has a central role. It's a bit like being a lorry driver without a license, or a teacher who is not allowed to discipline pupils in any way. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Rational Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 Very easy and simplified position to take from a Scottish perspective, not from a UK one. Whilst I want independence I am not presently immune to the politics of rUK; for that matter neither will an independent Scotland be when that time comes. The Labour Party membership has just recently shown that they are heading in the right direction by electing the only candidate who was not an establishment clone, there biggest problem was that the candidate in question is lacking in many qualities. I would agree that many Labour MPs don't represent the working man (and woman) but it will be easier to reform the party at grass roots level than to knock it down and start again. I can understand why so many folk in Scotland are anti-Labour, I am one of them, but don't underestimate the impact or the intent of the ordinary party member who put their faith in Corbyn despite the demonisation of him and the open threats of the probable splits during the leadership election. Maybe he will prove he doesn't have the calibre but the membership have issued a clear statement of intent by electing him in the first place. And a very naive belief that labour will reform itself. It won't, it can't, you see it every day with the infighting. It's no longer fit for purpose. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invergowrie arab Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 What utter rubbish. He has just recently been elected as a party leader through an exhaustive ballot system; that gives him the moral authority within his party. I would imagine most if not all CLPs have a position on this issue; I'd love to see any MP who votes in favour of air strikes against their CLP's position deselected. No. That gives him the constitutional authority. The moral authority to whip anyone was ceded by his continued and sustained voting against his party leadership over the previous decade. I don't think he was wrong to do so but for his supporters not to recognise and plan for this as a future issue lies somewhere between naive and cretinous. Also,CLPs don't get to be autonomous on policy. They send delegates to national conference to make policy. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin_Nevis Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 And a very naive belief that labour will reform itself. It won't, it can't, you see it every day with the infighting. It's no longer fit for purpose. Exactly this. f**k Labour to the power of 10. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Rational Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 It wasn't a personal dig btw, reread it and it kind of comes across as that, so just making myself clear. Plenty of folk out there that believe that labour will somehow find its soul again, but as I said, it ain't happening. There's a mass of 'solid working class' people o'er the Tweed that are desperate for proper party, I genuinely feel for them. But the actual party itself? Get tae f**k. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandarilla Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 If people of any political persuasion want to be Parliamentarians but don't want to be subject to the whip system then there's an easy answer, stand as an independent. But don't get elected on a party political ticket and then start complaining about the way in which party politics operate. What utter rubbish. He has just recently been elected as a party leader through an exhaustive ballot system; that gives him the moral authority within his party. I would imagine most if not all CLPs have a position on this issue; I'd love to see any MP who votes in favour of air strikes against their CLP's position deselected. Do you think MPs should always vote with the party when whipped to do so? Invergowrie arab made the other point for me. Corbyn broke rank enough times to realise he can't judge others for doing the same. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 Do you think MPs should always vote with the party when whipped to do so? Invergowrie arab made the other point for me. Corbyn broke rank enough times to realise he can't judge others for doing the same. Agreed. How can someone expect loyalty when he himself has been disloyal in the past. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrewDon Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 There's a debate on extending airstrikes on Newsnight now, just started on BBC 2 Scotland. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Rational Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 I was asked this question when I went through vetting a while back - would I vote against the party. I said that I would argue my case in private behind closed doors, but at the end off the day, it is a group decision and that is that even if it goes against you. If the community you represent are completely against a course of action etc, you are allowed to abstain. Yes, you are allowed to abstain in the SNP despite what you may think. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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